UO Second Age

Tab. I dont care if its inaccurate, so is having 24/7 CCTV. Who;s it effecting other than ghost scouts? House looters have 2nd & 3rd accounts nearby or work in teams, and IDOC campers, well, it would force people to actually be at the site, which would bring more action. I know its never, ever gonna happen thou.

Hemperor wrote:

Zane wrote:

BlackFoot wrote:ghosting is deff a game breaker :<

I don't think anyone would disagree with this.

I do however disagree that current policy is the reason for it. I also would like to see some other reasoning/suggestions on how to cope with it.

Sometimes this game or this server just will not conform to the type of game someone is looking for. This is not the fault of the server or the game.

Sorry, just skimmed through, but how is it not multiple accounts for all that is encouraging it? Multiple accounts really does help the PK template in many ways, although not intentional, it's just the way it is.

I'm not saying it doesn't contribute. I'm saying that limiting to one account would not curb the act. Who would think you need more then three accounts now, but there are people who break that rule and have more.

I'm also saying that when I played UO back in the day, my roommate would have my account logged on my comp when I wasn't using it to have a back up/scout (not a ghost, a scout). You weren't supposed to be able to do that then, but it was still possible. My point being, there will always be people who try to find a way around the rules to gain an advantage. It's not the policy that creates the problem necessarily, it's the player.

Zane wrote: The reason I point this out is because it also relates to other issues mentioned. This shard is not about making this or that player happy. (And regardless of the policies and features, there will always be people who will try to find a way around or exploit them). It's about replicating a point in time in this game. I do not necessarily like every change/feature in this era, but I know they are implemented with no intent other then accuracy. There is no malicious will; there is no attempt to cater to one player/playstyle or another. Therefore, any change is done with true fairness to the players as any personal influences are removed.

When players make threads and comments on threads like this complaining about pks and the difficulty of the game due to other players or an accuracy change, I wonder if they really grasp what this game, and furthermore a pvp enabled mmo, is about. You complain as if there is something wrong with challenges in a game or having to deal with a certain playstyle.

Actually, it is for the sake of accuracy that I made the argument. I am not calling to limit pking or otherwise accommodate non-aggressive players here, Im talking strictly about inaccurate mechanics and how they've created imbalances to favor pks in a very inaccurate way.

Ghosting was possible during the era and thus it should be allowed here.

Running multiple clients off of one computer was not a part of the era.

During the era, a player who paid for a secondary account and had another computer in the same room could ghost one location. In SecondAge, every single player can run 3 clients at once. For an example for how this plays out with ghosting:

Say there is a group of 5 reds wanting to pk one night. Let's assume 2 of them have two computers at their desk, the rest have the one. During the era (even ignoring the costs for accounts) that group would be able to watch two locations while still being on standby with their reds.

Now the same example with the use of inaccurate systems and policies on multiclienting....

That same group (assuming everyone is abiding by the 3 accounts per person, 4 connections per ip...); 5 players, 2 computers can run 17 clients combined....5 reds, 12 locations camped with ghosts....thus nearly every major hotspot throughout dungeons can be watched by but a handful of players....thus why we're seeing such a problem, a tactic that wasn't much of an issue during the era, with it here.

When we're given a technical replica of the era (the game mechanics and ig features) but we've added in features that weren't used in the era, we see a number of major problems that didn't exist during the era.

Again, what we're seeing here are players being discouraged and being told that they just have to deal with certain features (even if they are bad) because they are era accurate, but also being told that they have to deal with a number of problems that come from inaccurate mechanics. It's a shame that we have to see a player go before this is brought up, but until we make an attempt to eliminate such inaccurate problems its kindof bull to tell people "deal with it, it's era accurate".

Ghosting is really a non issue. If you want to farm at one of the good spots you are going to have to be prepared for pk gank squads to roll in with fair regularity. Ghost or not this would still be the case. You then have three options: a: make less money at a less travelled hunting spot, b: tool up and get good at pk evasion or c: get a guild and hunt with them.

If you don't like dealing with the constant threat of being pked this is not the server for you.

Odin wrote:Ghosting is really a non issue. If you want to farm at one of the good spots you are going to have to be prepared for pk gank squads to roll in with fair regularity. Ghost or not this would still be the case. You then have three options: a: make less money at a less travelled hunting spot, b: tool up and get good at pk evasion or c: get a guild and hunt with them.

If you don't like dealing with the constant threat of being pked this is not the server for you.

Players who want accurate gameplay shouldn't be on the only server who strives to be accurate?

Pking is a big part of the era....I don't think anyone is suggesting that we implement anything to discourage pking. But allowing pks to sit safely in their house while watching for an easy target in any of dozens of locations is not era accurate. Restore the same limitations existing during the era...make reds actually go out and run through dungeons, pks too had to take risks during the era.

benny~ I understand how ghosting is done. I'd also like to point out that there were multiple people back in the day who claimed to be able to multiclient (why you would want to with the lag you'd get then I don't know).


Arguing era accuracy on these points is moot. People always find a way around it to get what they want, which means that the current set up is in a way era accurate. Unfortunately, it's not black and white like game mechanics so yes there is some debate to it.

Keep in mind, I do remember someone saying that the multiple account setup was initially in place to allow multiple persons within a household to play at once. This means that people took the policy and worked it to their advantage, which is exactly what I'm saying.


Aside from all this, and has already been pointed out, pk hoards hitting popular farming spots was a huge part of the era. You could never expect to sit on a spot farming anything decent and expect to not see a pack of reds come for you. The ability to ghost or not does not change this.

Unfortunately I think this thread has less to do with T2A accuracy and more to do with what people expect from a game these days. Some people just don't want a true open game experience. They want a path to greatness that no other player can impede upon.



My last point on everything that's been said is this. PKs know the popular spots. They're going to hit them whether they can ghost or not. It's part of the game, always has been. Learn how to escape. I know when to avoid certain areas and what areas I can usually safely farm if I need the gold/loot. People need to stop trying to change the game to suit them and adapt their gameplay to fit the environment.

PKs will hit the spots regardless, but I doubt you've really encountered ghosting, at least not to the degree that many of us have.

PKs now have the ability to wait until you slip up, or your buddy goes for a reg restock etc. This is of course possible with only one account, but that does take that one guy out of the gank squad and with the log out times etc. makes ghosting 10x less effective.

There really is nothing that can be done about it at this point, this is true, but that doesn't change the fact that is happens regularily and takes away from gameplay for many players.

Multiple accounts on free shards are just plain abuse waiting to happen. One account is plenty and if someone disagrees with that then their someone who abuses the multi client privelage. Era accurate or not a siege server would be a great way to eliminate the gank squad advantage.

Okay, so after 5 minutes of being dead only allow ghosts to see NPC's. But then you couldn't see who was trying to res you... and if you made them unable to see anyone unless they were in war mode, they could just tab every so often to check.

Unless ghosts are banned from existing, then this problem doesn't seem to have any way of being fixed.

Um? Has no one thought of spy-ghosting? I've done this before to check a spawn for a ghost before I go in to farm. You kill a character on one of your accounts, gate him in, check for other ghosts, walk back out. If someone brings in a ghost after this, you will see a gate and will know something fishy is going on. Also, if you happen to notice once where the gank squad gates in, set up your own ghost in that general area with your journal open + dragged to the right side of your UO window on the ghost account (so you can see it from the farmer account while farming). As soon as anyone recalls/gates in, you will see it in the journal entry, giving you an extra few seconds to recall out.

And BTW, I am very happy to not see ACE mentioned in this thread. Every old thread about ghosting is "ACE ghosts every spawn, etc etc". We haven't ghosted ANY spawns for months. I personally feel that it is indeed a "crutch for bad PKs" and all it really does is save the gank squad 40 mana so they don't have to gate in and check the spawn for blues.

To all those complaining about multi-clienting, I actually feel that it adds content to the game in some situations. I have seen gate bots and doormen commanded through guild chat, archery bots that sit on top of houses and shoot any non-friends that come by, etc. I think that its awesome that players are creative enough to come up with macros that can do stuff that like, which wouldn't normally have been possible on an OSI server. If everyone was limited to one account, I'm sure we'd have less unique IPs online, since the game would have more of the "boring, old, already done everything I can do on the shard" factor.

The disadvantages of multi-clienting are an unbalanced economy, since many players unattended macro resource gathering (including sheep farms, which are legal somehow) and the fact that almost every player has some sort of GM crafter. On OSI, GM crafters were far more rare and in-demand, since people didn't generally macro gathering resources, making GMing a crafter MUCH more difficult. This causes GM crafter-made items to be devalued, which is evidenced by dirt cheap smith, alchy and carpenter goods. I've had 2 GM smith vendors since I started here and sold my goods for average price + manually harvested all the ingots I used and I LOST money from both of the vendors (due to vendor fees). Its pretty pathetic when the economy is so unbalanced that GM crafters lose money by running a vendor. IMO we need to make sheep farming illegal and have a staff member who's sole job is to find AFK resource gatherers (who should be perma-banned on the first offense, not the 5th).

Most people just have runes to every hot spot and they run circles gating from spot to spot looking for prey. Ghosting is really only reserved for the heavy spots, like the ancient wyrms or lich lords, I haven't really seen it happen too much anywhere else.

You're usually just the victim of a killing spree, not camping.

The reasoning for this guy leaving is exactly why i tell all the dirty truths when we get new people here. If you try to hide all the flaws here and out right lie to people just starting, they eventually quit and feel betrayed.

If people can stand all the negative stuff from the beginning, they'll last alot longer here than someone being hit with fluffy lies.

Ghosting is the issue in discussion here, not multiclients.
I multiclient but never ghost. There are fixes for the ghosting. Dont turn this into another anti-multiclient thread.

Zorce wrote:Ghosting is the issue in discussion here, not multiclients.
I multiclient but never ghost. There are fixes for the ghosting. Dont turn this into another anti-multiclient thread.

let's not ignore the true flaws either though

the flaw is not in the system, but in the way it is abused.

ghosting has been an issue for awhile. some guilds (TG) rely on it so heavily that they won't even pk without them.

there are different ways to curb this problem. each will be inaccurate to our era. one of those options would be an ingame fix, like what divinity did. they made is so a ghost could only see other players if they "showed"
this would have other negative effects though. as would any similar fix that effects the ways ghosts currently function.

another fix is 1 acc per player, but this is also inaccurate since we've gone over many many times that many of us had multiple accounts in t2a.

the fact that there is no simple fix for this is why nothing has ever been done about it.