Horses

[TheEttinKing]

I dont see a difference if a guy comes and im on foot i get away and if im on a horse i get away too i just move slower without a horse but same course of action happens and it takes me a hour to go anywere in a town without the horse.

[Lonebob]

There is a difference from replicating mechanical accuracy and social engineering. One of these are possible and the other isn't unless you have the blueprints for a time machine. You will never log into any server and be like "hey I'm back on <insert shard here>" where all your friends, enemies, rivals, and everything else socially unique to the server existed. This shard replicate the game mechanics as closely as possible offering a world where you will have a new social experience in the same setting that was possible back then.

There is no other option available really unless you have a time machine as previously mentioned.

But aren't we striving for a time machine no matter how impossible? Social engineering would be trying to make people not buy horses when they are available to be bought. I just want to manufacture some lag on the horses. Or is it at least possible to put a governor on horses giving the 200 ping peeps a chance?

[Lonebob]

I dont see a difference if a guy comes and im on foot i get away and if im on a horse i get away too i just move slower without a horse but same course of action happens and it takes me a hour to go anywere in a town without the horse.

Yes I admit I would miss horses in most cases...except in PvP.

[Hemperor]

I certainly wouldn't be so quick to list "horse lag" as social engineering, a term we hear all too often now, as there were numerous mechanical factors that affected horse speed in the era: Mainly how fast your computer could process the frames and your internet connection. I think it's safe to say that the vast majority never got to ride horses at the speed they are now, but the argument is that not everyone was bounded by this, especially leading up to 2000.

[Lonebob]

I certainly wouldn't be so quick to list "horse lag" as social engineering, a term we hear all too often now, as there were numerous mechanical factors that affected horse speed in the era: Mainly how fast your computer could process the frames and your internet connection. I think it's safe to say that the vast majority never got to ride horses at the speed they are now, but the argument is that not everyone was bounded by this, especially leading up to 2000.

I thought there were many factors as well because I had a cable connection but still couldn't use a horse.

[Lord Cavewight of GL]

You all may laugh at this guy for suggesting this but.... the reasoning is really no different than the reasoning a lot of you use for limiting multiple clients.


Just wanted to point that out.

[Lonebob]

Yup, least when I debate the multi client problem I don't BS. I simply state that I wouldn't play if it was just one account. The people here could state the same about horses. But to say everyone on a horse is era accurate is just not true.

[Mikel123]

Killing people on the run will improve this chance when the original swing timer is fixed by allowing the timer to be consumed while moving unlike now.

By the way, I disagree with this.

I don't care how we *think* this system is coded right now, the effect in practice is that you still can swing on the run. Granted most of my experience was running with 120 dex and a kryss, but I would chase people nonstop, and would whack them every time I caught up to them turning a corner, turning around, etc. And I'm talking chasing on a straightaway too, with a 22 ping, so I know my timer didn't advance due to lag or momentary pauses from turning a corner or something.

[benny-]

I can see your reasoning Lonebob, I too remember the majority of players being on foot. Lag was an issue but I disagree to the extent that you describe (I was on 56k during the entire era and I still remember being dumbfounded at how fast I could move the very first time I got on a horse ).

Cost was another issue...players not having the resources or knowledge that we do now meant the majority of players back then were struggling to get ahead. Having to go out and buy a new horse every time you died (which was undoubtedly much more often during the era) was costly and inconvenient. Many players simply gave up being mounted, which was viable as many other players had done the same.

Unfortunately on a shard where everyone has tons of money and a great connection (comparatively) you can easily gain quite the advantage by a very small amount of coin. When other players do this, it becomes a necessity in order to keep up.

My personal opinion...I prefer gameplay without horses. It takes out the hassle and I find it makes things more enjoyable. However, trying to replicate how much of the playerbase played during the era by eliminating horses entirely would be a huge slap to era accuracy....not something that should or would be done on this server.

Also, to Cavewight...this is completely different in regards to multclienting. Removing multiclienting (that is, running multiple clients from one computer) would be replicating mechanical aspects of the game and the era ("Another instance of UO is already running!") that are only circumvented through the use of third party apps (Razor) which were not a part of the era. (For once) I agree with Faust that removing horses would in fact be social engineering....removing multiclienting would not. But let's leave that discussion for other threads.

[ClowN]

mounts are fine and accurate the way they are.

[Lonebob]

Multi clienting was as simple as changing one number in a UO text file. I can't remember the file but you would change the text to show a "1" instead of a "0" No 3rd party program was needed. I know because I ran multiple accounts before UOExtreme even existed.

Ok so why not manufacture lag for horses? No one wants to comment of this idea?

EDIT: It was the uo.cfg file I believe.

[Faust]

Derrick has mentioned many times that he does not intend to social engineer the shard and only replicate the game mechanics.

Generating mount lag technically is social engineering Hemperor. You are taking a static concept of programming logic and skewing it to fit into a society based on past norms for the majority and dwarving the minority. There is no physical possibility of handing out everyone the same pc they used in November '99 or would have used. The same falls under internet connections too. This is the only feasible way to actually 'reproduce' an exact replica in this manner. Again, this pulls us back to the time machine comment previously mentioned where this impossibility is possible.

This is why social engineering under any circumstances is avoided on this shard. There is no 'true' process of replication available that can produce the same exact results back in the day unlike what the mechanical accuracy situation can reproduce.

[Faust]

Killing people on the run will improve this chance when the original swing timer is fixed by allowing the timer to be consumed while moving unlike now.

By the way, I disagree with this.

I don't care how we *think* this system is coded right now, the effect in practice is that you still can swing on the run. Granted most of my experience was running with 120 dex and a kryss, but I would chase people nonstop, and would whack them every time I caught up to them turning a corner, turning around, etc. And I'm talking chasing on a straightaway too, with a 22 ping, so I know my timer didn't advance due to lag or momentary pauses from turning a corner or something.

How can you disagree when in an agreement with my statement?

[Lonebob]

Derrick has mentioned many times that he does not intend to social engineer the shard and only replicate the game mechanics.

Generating mount lag technically is social engineering Hemperor. You are taking a static concept of programming logic and skewing it to fit into a society based on past norms for the majority and dwarving the minority. There is no physical possibility of handing out everyone the same pc they used in November '99 or would have used. The same falls under internet connections too. This is the only feasible way to actually 'reproduce' an exact replica in this manner. Again, this pulls us back to the time machine comment previously mentioned where this impossibility is possible.

This is why social engineering under any circumstances is avoided on this shard. There is no 'true' process of replication available that can produce the same exact results back in the day unlike what the mechanical accuracy situation can reproduce.

Ok so I looked up social engineering and I feel it has no place in this debate. We would not be tricking anyone into anything. We would simply be removing or slowing down horses/lamas.

If I had a dime for every time and post Faust threw out the phrase "Social Engineering"

[Rendar]

Also, horse killed mace fighting tank mages. In the real 99 you saw as many macing tank mages. But in UOSA everyone is a swords tank mage.

People say that we only fix server rules to be era accurate but the site boasts "Second Age is the most accurate emulation of the UO: T2A era online today." So maybe I'm wrong but shouldn't that mean that when I login its like I just went into a time machine?

This was the experience you had on your shard. On Catskills in '99 with the people I remember it was Swords based weapons not maces.

Are horses era accurate? Yes
End discussion.

I'm also from Catskills and most everyone who PvP'd was on horses. There were some macing tank mages, but most were swords. That's how I remember it. So, whoever said that your memory was in relation to YOUR shard, is very very correct. That's not how I remember T2A.