War/Peace mode & Attack Last

[Roser]

Ok so if you are blue and you attack a red guy, you go gray to the red guy but stay publicly blue.

Should this not be the case when player B decides to say e-bolt or attack player A beyond auto defend?

[Kaivan]

Assuming the earlier scenario holds true, if player A cast a spell or hits player B with the auto defend, the aggressor flag will be refreshed and the same checks will be made.

[Joueur Moyen]

Aggressor flags are 1 way flags. An aggressor flag is first given when a player attacks another player and that specific flag is refreshed under 2 conditions:

• Either player actively attacks the other player (either through attack last or double clicking the player).
• Either player does damage to the opposing player.

Also, at any time that an aggressor flag is created or refreshed, the server should check to see if the specific action that refreshed the aggressor timer is considered a criminal action. This is based on who did the action, and the direction of the aggressor flag (this is also the root of our current bug that allows a player to attack another player outside town and guard whack them).

So, to provide an example, if player A attacks player B and there is not a pre-existing aggressor flag between the two of them, an aggressor flag will exist where player A is an aggressor to player B. At any time after that, if any damage is done by either player or either player actively attacks the other player, the aggressor flag would be refreshed. In each instance of an aggressor flag being refreshed it will check to see if the action committed by the specific player is also a criminal action. If player A refreshes the aggressor timer, any action that he takes to refresh the timer would be considered a criminal action because he is the initial aggressor to player B. However, if player B refreshes the aggressor flag, no action that he takes would cause him to become a criminal. This is because player B is on the receiving end of the aggressor flag in the first place (for anyone who recalls, if you were the victim of an aggressor flag on OSI servers, the person who committed an aggressive act towards you would flag grey).

Just so I understand what you're writing: if player A attacks and is the initial aggressor, and player B auto-defends but does no damage, then player B should not have their aggressor flag set?

[Kaivan]

Aggressor flags are 1 way flags. An aggressor flag is first given when a player attacks another player and that specific flag is refreshed under 2 conditions:

• Either player actively attacks the other player (either through attack last or double clicking the player).
• Either player does damage to the opposing player.

Also, at any time that an aggressor flag is created or refreshed, the server should check to see if the specific action that refreshed the aggressor timer is considered a criminal action. This is based on who did the action, and the direction of the aggressor flag (this is also the root of our current bug that allows a player to attack another player outside town and guard whack them).

So, to provide an example, if player A attacks player B and there is not a pre-existing aggressor flag between the two of them, an aggressor flag will exist where player A is an aggressor to player B. At any time after that, if any damage is done by either player or either player actively attacks the other player, the aggressor flag would be refreshed. In each instance of an aggressor flag being refreshed it will check to see if the action committed by the specific player is also a criminal action. If player A refreshes the aggressor timer, any action that he takes to refresh the timer would be considered a criminal action because he is the initial aggressor to player B. However, if player B refreshes the aggressor flag, no action that he takes would cause him to become a criminal. This is because player B is on the receiving end of the aggressor flag in the first place (for anyone who recalls, if you were the victim of an aggressor flag on OSI servers, the person who committed an aggressive act towards you would flag grey).

Just so I understand what you're writing: if player A attacks and is the initial aggressor, and player B auto-defends but does no damage, then player B should not have their aggressor flag set?

The aggressor flag is set as soon as the first initial attack occurs. That's why, if you had experience as a red on OSI severs, that a blue character would appear grey to any red as soon as the blue attacked, provided the red had not attacked earlier. That was due to the fact that an aggressor flag had been set up between the blue and the red, with the blue being the aggressor to the red. That also explains why a red was able to kill any blue which had committed an aggressive action towards the red and not receive a murder count. That happened because any attacks that the red made on the blue were considered to be self-defense and thus not punishable.

[Rammar]

So, to provide an example, if player A attacks player B and there is not a pre-existing aggressor flag between the two of them, an aggressor flag will exist where player A is an aggressor to player B. At any time after that, if any damage is done by either player or either player actively attacks the other player, the aggressor flag would be refreshed. In each instance of an aggressor flag being refreshed it will check to see if the action committed by the specific player is also a criminal action. If player A refreshes the aggressor timer, any action that he takes to refresh the timer would be considered a criminal action because he is the initial aggressor to player B. However, if player B refreshes the aggressor flag, no action that he takes would cause him to become a criminal. This is because player B is on the receiving end of the aggressor flag in the first place (for anyone who recalls, if you were the victim of an aggressor flag on OSI servers, the person who committed an aggressive act towards you would flag grey).

This doesn't sound right. There would be no way to initiate combat outside of town and continue it (after the initial 15sec but while still flagged) inside without getting whacked.

I'm nearly positive this was possible -- the initial victim would eventually get flagged grey to the attacker. The original attacker could even go blue while continuing to pummel them. I think there were also cases you could autodefend (but not retarget) against a blue opponent in town.

[Roser]

At any time after that, if any damage is done by either player or either player actively attacks the other player, the aggressor flag would be refreshed.

So in order for the innocent to be able to flag towards the attacker, he would need to wait out the flag timer (2min yea?) without any attacks from either party in that time.

This is the way it is now I'm sure, although I'm unsure of what the flag timer should be before a defender is able to flag an attacker. 2 mins like a regular criminal flag, or shorter?

[Kaivan]

So, to provide an example, if player A attacks player B and there is not a pre-existing aggressor flag between the two of them, an aggressor flag will exist where player A is an aggressor to player B. At any time after that, if any damage is done by either player or either player actively attacks the other player, the aggressor flag would be refreshed. In each instance of an aggressor flag being refreshed it will check to see if the action committed by the specific player is also a criminal action. If player A refreshes the aggressor timer, any action that he takes to refresh the timer would be considered a criminal action because he is the initial aggressor to player B. However, if player B refreshes the aggressor flag, no action that he takes would cause him to become a criminal. This is because player B is on the receiving end of the aggressor flag in the first place (for anyone who recalls, if you were the victim of an aggressor flag on OSI servers, the person who committed an aggressive act towards you would flag grey).

This doesn't sound right. There would be no way to initiate combat outside of town and continue it (after the initial 15sec but while still flagged) inside without getting whacked.

I'm nearly positive this was possible -- the initial victim would eventually get flagged grey to the attacker. The original attacker could even go blue while continuing to pummel them. I think there were also cases you could autodefend (but not retarget) against a blue opponent in town.

It is possible to fight inside town without either player getting guard whacked. This is possible when a blue player attacks a grey player who committed some sort of criminal action that did not involve being aggressive towards that player. This was commonly done by looting a blue's corpse, or casting explosion on your horse and mounting it. This would set up a circumstance where the criminal player would be "defending" (the blue is the aggressor towards the criminal), meaning both players could enter town and fight and neither would be flagged as a criminal for their actions as long as the aggressor flag still exists (on the demo, even when the criminal goes blue, the innocent attacker still views them as a grey due to the aggressor flag).

[Joueur Moyen]

Just so I understand what you're writing: if player A attacks and is the initial aggressor, and player B auto-defends but does no damage, then player B should not have their aggressor flag set?

The aggressor flag is set as soon as the first initial attack occurs. That's why, if you had experience as a red on OSI severs, that a blue character would appear grey to any red as soon as the blue attacked, provided the red had not attacked earlier. That was due to the fact that an aggressor flag had been set up between the blue and the red, with the blue being the aggressor to the red. That also explains why a red was able to kill any blue which had committed an aggressive action towards the red and not receive a murder count. That happened because any attacks that the red made on the blue were considered to be self-defense and thus not punishable.

Let me give a specific example: Player A (red, gray or blue) initiates the attack and is the aggressor. Player B autodefends but does no damage.

Is Player B now an aggressor to Player A?

[Kaivan]

Just so I understand what you're writing: if player A attacks and is the initial aggressor, and player B auto-defends but does no damage, then player B should not have their aggressor flag set?

The aggressor flag is set as soon as the first initial attack occurs. That's why, if you had experience as a red on OSI severs, that a blue character would appear grey to any red as soon as the blue attacked, provided the red had not attacked earlier. That was due to the fact that an aggressor flag had been set up between the blue and the red, with the blue being the aggressor to the red. That also explains why a red was able to kill any blue which had committed an aggressive action towards the red and not receive a murder count. That happened because any attacks that the red made on the blue were considered to be self-defense and thus not punishable.

Let me give a specific example: Player A (red, gray or blue) initiates the attack and is the aggressor. Player B autodefends but does no damage.

Is Player B now an aggressor to Player A?

No, player A is till the aggressor to player B. The only thing that would happen is if player B damaged or actively attacked player A, the aggressor flag between the two players would be refreshed, but player A is still the aggressor to player B.

[Joueur Moyen]

I'm nearly positive this was possible -- the initial victim would eventually get flagged grey to the attacker. The original attacker could even go blue while continuing to pummel them. I think there were also cases you could autodefend (but not retarget) against a blue opponent in town.

Tab-tab hide! (Pretty sure that was gone by this era.)

[Joueur Moyen]

No, player A is till the aggressor to player B. The only thing that would happen is if player B damaged or actively attacked player A, the aggressor flag between the two players would be refreshed, but player A is still the aggressor to player B.

Okay, thanks.

[MatronDeWinter]

I'm nearly positive this was possible -- the initial victim would eventually get flagged grey to the attacker. The original attacker could even go blue while continuing to pummel them. I think there were also cases you could autodefend (but not retarget) against a blue opponent in town.

Tab-tab hide! (Pretty sure that was gone by this era.)

For sure, that was a pre(maybe early) t2a thing. People complained so hard about that one.

[Derrick]

I just updated test center with a possible fix for this. Mostly untested as to possible side-effects.

[Psilo]

I agree with Rose this is certainly not working right.

You can kill ANY red that attacks you if they are anywhere near guards zone. Run in, attk last and if they are near the screen there's a dead statloss red

I actually killed 3 people at the same time doing this when I first started here and was a newbie.

[nightshark]

OP is right, your opponent hitting "attacklast" should not trigger you to be whacked, if you are currently ineligible for whack. This was fixed a long time ago. It was fixed incorrectly, by removing auto-defend entirely if your attacker was blue to you. It was patched back into the game when auto-defend once again applied to everyone.

I am pretty sure the entire reason it functions like this, is how auto defend functions here. When you hit "attacklast" it actually causes my character to attack yours, rather than do just that - defend.

I'm nearly positive this was possible -- the initial victim would eventually get flagged grey to the attacker. The original attacker could even go blue while continuing to pummel them. I think there were also cases you could autodefend (but not retarget) against a blue opponent in town.

You are correct that it was possible for the initial victim to eventually turn grey to the attacker, but not correct that the attacker could "auto defend" and eventually turn blue.

When I use the term "auto defend", I mean that the attacker is actually hitting the victim with a weapon, after being forced back into combat.

The only way it was possible for the victim to eventually turn grey to the attacker, was if the attacker performed no negative actions on the victim for a period of time, yet was continually attacked by the victim in that period.

EG:
I attack 1up (blue) outside of Minoc. We both run into minoc, and 1up keeps chasing me around attacking me, but I never swing at him. If we keep this up for a period of time (not sure how long, most probably 2 minutes), eventually 1up will go grey to me and I can kill him without penalty. Obviously that situation does not exist on UOSA, since 1up re-attacking me is a "criminal action" for me.