Blade spirits are really weak

[Mikel123]

Don't forget, with 150 dex instead of 75, they should be doing damage much faster, and the extra strength should give them a bit more of a bonus to their hits.

The 2003 numbers seem pretty high for our era, actually. If we're looking at 7 or 8 to kill a balron, then it's doing a TON of damage (although I suppose another explanation is that the 7 or 8 is when it is at full mana and dispelling them quickly).

[Derrick]

EV's will be updated too, from http://web.archive.org/web/200212151850 ... rtex.shtml

They were correct except for their hitpoints. and AR rating

[Faust]

Don't forget, with 150 dex instead of 75, they should be doing damage much faster, and the extra strength should give them a bit more of a bonus to their hits.

There will be an increase to their stamina but only by a 26 point difference. Swing speed caps at 101 stamina for wrestling. However, EVs and BSs don't utilize the standard swing timer mechanism if I remember correctly. Pretty sure it's handled by a script that handles a swing based on a timer mechanism inside the original code.

[Derrick]

EVs and BSs don't utilize the standard swing timer mechanism if I remember correctly. Pretty sure it's handled by a script that handles a swing based on a timer mechanism inside the original code.

Aye, the swing speed and damage is fixed in the AI; it's not a normal weapon or wrestling, and they do not miss.

[Gilgamesh]

Blade spirits certainly are difficult to use. I think that's probably accurate, but what exactly are the behaviors of blade spirits? I was trying to get them to attack monsters and they had to be casted within one tile to attack them, they would attack me otherwise. Also if they are in a tent they will follow me around the tent even if they aren't currently aggro'd against me. It's as if they are designed to try and attack you and make it difficult to use them.

[Mikel123]

Blade spirits certainly are difficult to use. I think that's probably accurate, but what exactly are the behaviors of blade spirits? I was trying to get them to attack monsters and they had to be casted within one tile to attack them, they would attack me otherwise. Also if they are in a tent they will follow me around the tent even if they aren't currently aggro'd against me. It's as if they are designed to try and attack you and make it difficult to use them.

Right. That's the problem I have with them as they currently stand. There are certainly accounts of "you have to put it next to the monster or it attacks you", but I would wager a lot of that is hyperbole and selective memory.

Here, it seems they are *programmed* to behave like that. Whereas even if they did always behave like that on OSI, they surely weren't programmed like that.

If our code is comparing [distance to monster * 6], versus [distance to player], and picking the closer one to attack, then that might at least have been a reasonable thing the original programmers designed (highly unlikely though, I think). But it seems like our code instead says:

If next to a monster, attack monster
Else attack nearest human

Do we really think that's how they worked back then?

[Generic Player]

Yeah, that's how they worked. I don't know if that is how the devs originally intended it to work, but that was what they gave us. Unless it was cast right next to a monster it would just go after a player (the closest player?) or stand there looking dumb. There's several mentions in this thread (and many others I am sure): http://groups.google.com/group/alt.game ... 653185bf5c
If you miss and it doesn't attack the monster, you can run around and try to make the BS and the monster bump into each other, which can get them fighting.

[Mikel123]

Agreed how it works here... but I don't think anyone really knew how they worked back then (we all knew they were supposed to target STR or INT, respectively, but in practice that clearly wasn't the case). I'm hesitant to accept that post as gospel... the one it's citing also claims that, like the T-Rex in Jurassic Park, they only target you if you're moving.

[Generic Player]

You don't accept any single post as gospel. You use common sense and see how several people are all saying the exact same thing in that thread (and many others). Only random individuals claim any other kind of targetting, and always getting a "no that's not how it works" response.

[Gilgamesh]

I really can't remember exactly how they worked, but I remember it being risky business to farm blood and poison ele's in Shame with ev's, it was all to common for them to attack players even if you were placing them well.

One thing that seems strange to me is that if I see a group of 3 or so monsters and want to bs them, and I place the bs in perfect position next to one of them, it attacks that one but when that one monster is dead it either attacks me (and I'm standing very far away) or just stands there. Even if I leave for several screens away it will just stand there and not target the other monsters. Very rarely one of the monsters will target it, and I think if they happen to bump into each other walking around they'll fight (cause bs poisons on touching?) but other than that they're useless once they finish whatever they first were targeting.

One way I think I remember it being taught to me was that bs targeted things based on distance and strength, and that ev's targeted with intelligence. Thoughts?

[nightshark]

Very rarely one of the monsters will target it, and I think if they happen to bump into each other walking around they'll fight (cause bs poisons on touching?) but other than that they're useless once they finish whatever they first were targeting.

One way I think I remember it being taught to me was that bs targeted things based on distance and strength, and that ev's targeted with intelligence. Thoughts?

Just kite the BS into a monster. Easiest if you paralyze the monster you want the BS to target.

[Derrick]

What we have is belived correct based on accounts from era. I think more can probably be pulled up on this. It is understood that there was a drastic change to their AI when they were made "more aggressive" in a early era patch (or pre-era).

On the original topic, how are their new stats?

[Sandro]

Stats seem fine more realistic than before.

However to note on the energy vortex. I had one up against a balron in hythloth earlier, and a giant serpent standing adjacent to the balron. The initial target was the balron, but when the giant serpent moved adjacent to the EV, it immediately changed its combatant to the serpent.

I am fairly certain that the balron has more intelligence than the serpent. Are we sure the way they are acquire targets is working properly?

[Derrick]

I am fairly certain that the balron has more intelligence than the serpent. Are we sure the way they are acquire targets is working properly?

Thanks will look into this.

[Generic Player]

Blade spirits are definitely closer to how they should be, but I am not sure if they are quite there yet. To compare with before I grabbed a knight-errant to see how many BS it takes now. Three BS was almost enough to kill him, it only took two lightnings to finish him off. He didn't actually kill any of them though, they disappeared before they could die. How long a blade spirit lasts depends on your magery skill right? How much longer do they last at 80 magery vs 60? I am not sure if they are taking too little damage (in which case they are also dealing too little damage), or if they are not lasting as long as they should.