EVs again

[nightshark]

has anyone tried it on the demo?

I don't think its possible to get an energy vortex scroll on the demo in order to summon one.

Could be wrong though, never tried. I was under the impression all you could obtain was newbie equipment + the supplies that were sold/available in Haven (Occlo?)

Yeah that's correct, however I know Derrick - at least - had the ability to cast bladespirit at one time when we were discussing equip casting. I think there is a hack for the client, I've seen a screenshot where Hemperor had created a deamon.

[BlackFoot]

so even if they wander within one tile of each other it doesnt matter, they have to initially when casted be exactly beside the monster or you might as well dispel it?

[nightshark]

so even if they wander within one tile of each other it doesnt matter, they have to initially when casted be exactly beside the monster or you might as well dispel it?

I have been able to kite EVs onto monsters to make them attack, I haven't used one within the past 2 weeks or so, though.

[Panthor the Hated]

The question isn't how do we use EVs, its why are they acting this way. Everyone here knows how to use them to farm. BF and I have done enough t-maps together where he ends up casting EV I can vouch for his proficiency.

Please stop replying "you just need to kite it around" and/or "it needs to be within 1 tile". These are not revelations. We'd like to see if theres more solid evidence of how EVs actually worked in era.

[archaicsubrosa77]

Really that needed more investigation then it was given.
How come 2 years or so later (about 2) people are like, yeah that's how it worked...
when the AI on it is utterly ridiculous?

These things to me seem utterly chaotic destroying anything in their path not something that needs players to guide it's path of destruction.

[Brules]

EV's were not quite this useless in era....they were more agressive towards spawn than they are now, but you did have to cast them close to your target. I do remember if they went after you and you invised, they would almost immediately target the nearest monster. Right now, they are not doing that and I think that is what is broken/borked/screwed up.

They will 100% ignore everything else yet target you 1 screen away.

Oh and this patch/fix is a nother great illustration of Faust mucking things up. When did he get elected as the kind of "this is the way it was"? I say unless he starts playing here againm he should have 0 input.

[archaicsubrosa77]

Does this have anything to do with homewrecking?
"Neuter the vortexes because things that weren't locked down were abolished? "

[Faust]

Adrick posted the following...

The energy vortex and blade spirit AI was rewritten to remove alot of inefficiency in their cycle counts. This has resulted in substantial reduction in dungeon server cpu cycles used by these programs.

As a result they now attack targets with better prediction and spend less time "thinking" and more time fighting their target. The z exploits have been removed so that they can be dispelled correctly. Using a blade spirit or Energy Vortex on creatures that have the ability to dispel them is not going to be effective unless those creatures are mana drained.
Ive done some checking and they appear to be working (they do damage, they are dispelled correctly, they attack).

Balrons are one of the most challenging monsters in the game - it may indeed take more of them to kill the more challenging monsters but for the (upper mid) level creatures they should be functioning the same.

So yes, EV's and BS's will be noticeably weaker on the stronger monsters. The one thing I like is that they no longer "think." What does Adrick mean by "think?" Basically, the EVs/BS's will no longer sit idle when there are targets in the line of sight. A dragon for example will target you almost immediately if you are within its view. Blade spirits and EVs will now act in the same manner. Although they are weaker, I think this one fix helps a bit.

Adrick also posted:

Im taking the feedback here seriously and I just concluded a test on the Lake Superior shard. I created a normal lich, I set its mana to 0. I then at 100 magery cast 1 energy vortex and it imeddiately attacked the lich - I timed it in 29 seconds the lich was dead and the energy vortex was the slightest sliver harmed.

Yes there were changes to the energy vortex spell as I detailed in several posts.

1] They now actually fight an enemy in that they can hit or miss.
2] They no longer spend extra cycles evaluating targets - they chose a target and fight it thus reducing lag mostly on the dungeon servers where these spells are common.
3] They no longer poison.

A lich is a mid level creature so my information about the relative strength of EV vs mid to high mid creatures was correct.

Thanks Adrick - I'm glad OSI actually takes the time to report the results of the changes they make. What sucks? EVs no longer poison. Aside from poison though, they seem to maintain their usual strength. If anyone does any further tests (ex. see how EVs/BS's work on cyclops or ogre lords), drop me a line.

Cya later.

This gives some insight to the way EVs and BSs functioned in '99 since this is the only known change made to them in between our target era and '01. There appears to be a lot of similarities between the demo script and this article. For example, these creatures are not 'regular npcs' and use a special AI in the original scripts. The damage is based on a static timer and they never miss. The script does a lot of evaluation cycles when determining a target just like what is mentioned in this article. What needs to be determined is what may have changed from the original script in '98 and '99, if anything at all.

[archaicsubrosa77]

It also states the summons just dont "sit and think" meaning they are aggressive to their targets which have to be spawn as well...it is unfathomable that a summon would not target spawn.

[poogoblin]

It also states the summons just dont "sit and think" meaning they are aggressive to their targets which have to be spawn as well...it is unfathomable that a summon would not target spawn.

Additionally did I miss something? I don't see anywhere where it says monsters don't randomly attack EV, or vice versa

[nightshark]

It also says "EVs no longer poison" which I have always been an advocate for. The only time I ever recall being cursed/poisoned by an EV was when I SHOVED THROUGH one in mid '00.

Only mention I can find on usenet of EVs no longer having poison ability was in 2002.

The exception to this used to be Energy Vortex spell against people with
high intelligence, I'm not sure this is true anymore. They used to hit
for -10 across the board curse type stat decrease and poison you. They also
moved faster then 95% of the players which was usually good enough to kill
them.

Where did the magery value of EVs come from? On UOSA they hit for -2 in each stat.

[Mens Rea]

I managed to get an EV to attack an ogre, two orcs and a troll.

I casted the EV further than 1 square away from the monsters, then ran around the EV/monsters in a circle.

The EV will attack the monsters you just have to keep them moving near the EV.

EV was hard to use in T2A too.

[Sandro]

I managed to get an EV to attack an ogre, two orcs and a troll.

I casted the EV further than 1 square away from the monsters, then ran around the EV/monsters in a circle.

The EV will attack the monsters you just have to keep them moving near the EV.

EV was hard to use in T2A too.

[Panthor the Hated]

I managed to get an EV to attack an ogre, two orcs and a troll.

I casted the EV further than 1 square away from the monsters, then ran around the EV/monsters in a circle.

The EV will attack the monsters you just have to keep them moving near the EV.

EV was hard to use in T2A too.

Again, we already know how to use them. Thats not the question.

[Derrick]

The following was made by Batlin as an illustration of the '98 OSI Energy Vortex AI.
Using the hacked demo to kill a blood elemental with energy vortexes (WMV file, 23MB)

If any questions surface surrounding how this was made, etc etc etc, please make a thread elsewhere, preferably at: The UO Demo Forum on JoinUO.com

It is notable that in this example that while the Elemental and EV are fighting each other, they still both turn to attack the player a few times. This is a great example of how different the AI is between OSI and Second Age. This is something we have intended to address for some time, and it will be eventually be accomplished through a rewrite of the AI. We have put a lot of band-aids on AI, trying to approach OSI behavior, however the RunUO AI is not really built upon a platform that works well for this, although it very well may better approximate later eras.