UO Second Age

You know this change might actually make mages use .. you know ... magic?

Fights on UOSA have always been about luck on hally swings, not mana efficiency. Now instead of back and forth hally swinging, people will meditate and go back to fighting with spells.

This! 50% chance-to-hit weapon hits are fine for warriors, but mages were always about spells 1998-1999. Indeed the hally was used as a finisher or throughout the fight as a side arm, but it was never able to be used as the main source of damage. Meditation was more useful(and used) in 1999 since there wasn't a constant onslaught of 30+ damage hally hits to interupt and nullify(constant healing) your mana.

The katana is what mages used to do quicker spurts of less damage if that was their style. Remember mages using war axes and quarter staves? They could actually stand up to a hally mage because they were faster while the hally was slower and did more damage. Yet on UOSA the hally hits just as fast and of course delivers much more damage. There's no balance because of the inaccurate cycling mechanic/bug.

Many many hally mages use a macro that auto unequips / equips their Hally, maybe you don't, but the good ones do.

I'm sure someone does but most mages don't. There's no real advantage.

Halbu wrote:

You know this change might actually make mages use .. you know ... magic?

Fights on UOSA have always been about luck on hally swings, not mana efficiency. Now instead of back and forth hally swinging, people will meditate and go back to fighting with spells.

This! 50% weapon hits are fine for warriors, but mages were always about spells 1998-1999. Indeed the hally was used as a finisher or throughout the fight as a side arm, but it was never able to be used as the main source of damage. Meditation was more useful(and used) in 1999 since there wasn't a constant onslaught of 30+ damage hally hits to interupt and nullify(constant healing) your mana.

The katana is what mages used to do quicker spurts of less damage if that was their style. Remember mages using war axes and quarter staves? They could actually stand up to a hally mage because they were faster while the hally was slower and did more damage. Yet on UOSA the hally hits just as fast and of course delivers much more damage. There's no balance because of the inaccurate cycling mechanic/bug.

Many many hally mages use a macro that auto unequips / equips their Hally, maybe you don't, but the good ones do.

I'm sure someone does but most mages don't. There's no real advantage.

I basically agree with Psilo/Halbu (First time for everything). Most of that EUO/Razor macroing for the inaccurate halberd cycling was done back when punch could disturb a swing giving the fastest halberd a distinct advantage.

Can someone so kindly send me a link to the proposed combat changes?

Fede wrote:Can someone so kindly send me a link to the proposed combat changes?

They are on test center from what I hear.

New changes will allow you to greater heal 3 times in-between hally swings.

So if you want to do any kind of effective pvp, just load up vent and go for the sync. Individual pvp, as far as competition is concerned will become obsolete.

This information was gathered based on statements given out by Kaivan over vent. If what he claims to be "accurate" comes to see publish on UOSA, then the description above will indeed come to be true.

Whether or not pvp still exists after publish is questionable, but competition will go straight out the window.

Sandro wrote:

Fede wrote:Can someone so kindly send me a link to the proposed combat changes?

They are on test center from what I hear.

New changes will allow you to greater heal 3 times in-between hally swings.

So if you want to do any kind of effective pvp, just load up vent and go for the sync. Individual pvp, as far as competition is concerned will become obsolete.

This information was gathered based on statements given out by Kaivan over vent. If what he claims to be "accurate" comes to see publish on UOSA, then the description above will indeed come to be true.

Whether or not pvp still exists after publish is questionable, but competition will go straight out the window.

If that's the case, if you are interested in fielding, maybe cr3w and 1+1 can team up and really bring the pain. I will act like I am going head to head against someone, then we can flank the hell out of that guy from all cardinal directions with loaded flamestrikes. Therefore, we will still be the dominating force on this shard:)

I will also make a dexxer in case.

PM me.

i never played in t2a era so i dont have any memories of that time but i can tell you that this server really is boring in regards to pk.

the hally mage build should not be the only effective build for pk. when i first started here i wanted to build a dexxer and after experimenting a bit with it gave it up . there is just no way to compete when mini heal is so powerful and i must rely on bandages. also the fact that you for the most part must be only 1 tile away from the guy you are chasing.

as a whole hally mages are the only people pvping at any high level. i dont mind that say guys who have played the longest have advantages but it should be more then one type of character to pk. archers and other dexx based characters have effectively been wiped off the shard due to the mechanics that are enforced.

i would really like to see more variety of players and builds. not only would it make pk more interesting but draw more people into pvp.

Fede wrote:If that's the case, if you are interested in fielding, maybe cr3w and 1+1 can team up and really bring the pain. I will act like I am going head to head against someone, then we can flank the hell out of that guy from all cardinal directions with loaded flamestrikes. Therefore, we will still be the dominating force on this shard:)

I will also make a dexxer in case.

PM me.

I'm only playing here for competitive pvp, which with the current system is already near non-existent. Once that is gone then there will be no purpose for me to play here.

If I wanted to spend hours setting up a gank on someone, I would have joined TG years ago.

Sandro wrote:I'm only playing here for competitive pvp, which with the current system is already near non-existent. Once that is gone then there will be no purpose for me to play here.

How would you have it Sandro?

How would I change the mechanics?

I don't want to make any changes, nor do I care if changes are made. It's not my server or my decision which direction the server goes.

I'm not going to sit here and have a forum war/debate over something as silly as "combat changes". If changes are made that decrease my enjoyment here, then I simply won't play.

I suppose the Sunday player base has spoken and people like Sandro, myself, and a few others are in the minority.

It's hard to really put together an argument here without some facts on the subject though. I know a lot of the proposed changes (go on test to try some of the preliminary ones), but I'm not really qualified to put together a list of them here.

If Rose could chime in here with some bullet points of the changes (he has been following this actively) it would be a big help, or even Kaivan himself (from what I understand what has been done on test is mostly his work as far as staff is concerned).

I do think a lot of pvpers are going to be disturbed at what is going to take place namely because it's not based on accuracy but just change for the sake of change.
System A is broken in some ways, so System B will be implemented even though it's also broken.
Granted, some things will be fixed (like SOTR staying after a patch note was found proving it existed in era) and that is a great thing. But there is no definitive patch note saying you couldn't use the wrestling timer to swing a weapon and there is no definitive patch note saying you couldn't instantly hit without waiting for a timer to elapse.

I'm not one for forum wars myself, and I haven't been following the work of the staff enough on this issue to continue to argue, but I will say that personally, if the parts of this shard I enjoy (which is mostly pking solo or in a group of 2) are taken away, then I have no reason to stay and will leave.
This is a great shard with a solid player base and great staff and lots of things other than hally mage pvp for people to enjoy, so I'm not encouraging other people to leave by any means. I do think if these changes go live though, the dexxer will be highly overpowered (and NEA), the hally mage way underpowered (in my opinion NEA as this class still as the best class during OSI T2A), you'll see way more large red gank squads because of the inability of 1 or 2 mages to be able to kill many people, and field pvp will most likely devolve into even more of a "bait into vent synch gank" game.

First, a few comments on what's going on. What is currently on test center is a rewrite of the code from the ground up. At this point, we only have the basic system in place, but it adequately shows that insta-hit can be achieved through minimal modifications to the pre-T2A code (about 10 lines total), and that UOR style variable hits can be achieved with about 5 more lines of code. However, at this point, prep times are not on test center.

Second:

iamantitype wrote:(like SOTR staying after a patch note was found proving it existed in era)

There is no patch note supporting the ability to swing while moving, nor is there a direct patch note in era that cites that it was removed. This is the primary reason that we are willing to go back to the drawing board in the first place. There is as much direct evidence suggesting that it was possible as there was that says it wasn't. This, however, is not the case with things such as halberd cycling or swing holding, which both lack any sufficient evidence to support its existence. These 'features' are the ones that are likely to be removed as a result of this new system.

Finally, nothing is being done to insta-hit. Recall, insta-hit only means that you attempt to hit at the instant that your animation starts and not at the end like before.

Kaivan wrote:First, a few comments on what's going on. What is currently on test center is a rewrite of the code from the ground up. At this point, we only have the basic system in place, but it adequately shows that insta-hit can be achieved through minimal modifications to the pre-T2A code (about 10 lines total), and that UOR style variable hits can be achieved with about 5 more lines of code. However, at this point, prep times are not on test center.

Second:

iamantitype wrote:(like SOTR staying after a patch note was found proving it existed in era)

There is no patch note supporting the ability to swing while moving, nor is there a direct patch note in era that cites that it was removed. This is the primary reason that we are willing to go back to the drawing board in the first place. There is as much direct evidence suggesting that it was possible as there was that says it wasn't. This, however, is not the case with things such as halberd cycling or swing holding, which both lack any sufficient evidence to support its existence. These 'features' are the ones that are likely to be removed as a result of this new system.

Finally, nothing is being done to insta-hit. Recall, insta-hit only means that you attempt to hit at the instant that your animation starts and not at the end like before.

Awesome news!

Kaivan wrote:First, a few comments on what's going on. What is currently on test center is a rewrite of the code from the ground up. At this point, we only have the basic system in place, but it adequately shows that insta-hit can be achieved through minimal modifications to the pre-T2A code (about 10 lines total), and that UOR style variable hits can be achieved with about 5 more lines of code. However, at this point, prep times are not on test center.

Second:

iamantitype wrote:(like SOTR staying after a patch note was found proving it existed in era)

There is no patch note supporting the ability to swing while moving, nor is there a direct patch note in era that cites that it was removed. This is the primary reason that we are willing to go back to the drawing board in the first place. There is as much direct evidence suggesting that it was possible as there was that says it wasn't. This, however, is not the case with things such as halberd cycling or swing holding, which both lack any sufficient evidence to support its existence. These 'features' are the ones that are likely to be removed as a result of this new system.

Finally, nothing is being done to insta-hit. Recall, insta-hit only means that you attempt to hit at the instant that your animation starts and not at the end like before.

As always, your explanations and work are much appreciated. I know ya take a lot of guff :-p

Thanks for chiming in. I heard last night that a patch note was found that proved SOTR. I guess that person was mistaken.

I figured insta hit (hitting at the beginning of the animation was staying). I was mistaken by calling it insta-hit, I actually meant swing-holding by your definition.

So when will we see the halberd cycle and swing-holding disappear?
These features both have no evidence whether they existed or whether they didn't exist. I believe this is because they existed during the entire T2A era, but I have no evidence of course. Only my memory, and we can assume that mine is just as good as anyone that disagrees with me.

Sandro wrote:

Fede wrote:If that's the case, if you are interested in fielding, maybe cr3w and 1+1 can team up and really bring the pain. I will act like I am going head to head against someone, then we can flank the hell out of that guy from all cardinal directions with loaded flamestrikes. Therefore, we will still be the dominating force on this shard:)

I will also make a dexxer in case.

PM me.

I'm only playing here for competitive pvp, which with the current system is already near non-existent. Once that is gone then there will be no purpose for me to play here.

If I wanted to spend hours setting up a gank on someone, I would have joined TG years ago.

I should have made it clearer I was joking. On the other hand I am with you, I was here to enjoy an era and competitive pvp style I experienced a long time ago. If these current changes take place, then I will say it now that I had very entertaining fights against you and it's been fun.

Kaivan wrote:First, a few comments on what's going on. What is currently on test center is a rewrite of the code from the ground up. At this point, we only have the basic system in place, but it adequately shows that insta-hit can be achieved through minimal modifications to the pre-T2A code (about 10 lines total), and that UOR style variable hits can be achieved with about 5 more lines of code. However, at this point, prep times are not on test center.

Will we be able to hold our swings and will the halberd timer be any different?