UO Second Age

Kaivan wrote:No it doesn't. Argumentum ad populum.

Argumentum ad populum doesn't apply here. It is not that these people believe it. It is their specific account of how it functions. There would be no reason to state that you must wait for the cursor if it was not so.


If 5 people point you out at a line up as the person that broke into someone's house and there is no physical evidence that points to you, those 5 people's statements aren't evidence? I believe so...

They are stating specifically that it was you that broke in. They aren't stating something general like 'it was a man' and your being accused because you are a man.

This is interesting...True?



https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searc ... _oYNKkq34J

10/6/1999
Precasting means that you have already casted a spell and have not targeted
it. You can cast a spell, then hide and the target cursor is still there.

FishinPro wrote:

Kaivan wrote:No it doesn't. Argumentum ad populum.

Argumentum ad populum doesn't apply here. It is not that these people believe it. It is their specific account of how it functions. There would be no reason to state that you must wait for the cursor if it was not so.


If 5 people point you out at a line up as the person that broke into someone's house and there is no physical evidence that points to you, those 5 people's statements aren't evidence? I believe so...

They are stating specifically that it was you that broke in. They aren't stating something general like 'it was a man' and your being accused because you are a man.

Actually, the fallacy applies perfectly here. For one, if 5 people say that they wait for the cursor to appear before they arm the weapon, this does not mean that it can't be done any other way, it simply means that they do it that way. You're extending that position and saying that if 5 people state that they do/believe something works one way, then clearly it must only be done that way. If that logic applied, then casting meteor swarm under certain house foundations would clearly be impossible to do, since it was common knowledge at the time that a locked house was safe. The same would be true with the speed of the katana, which players vehemently claimed was slower than the kryss, when in fact it is absolutely the faster weapon. Other examples apply as well, but I hope the point has been made.

In order to support the idea that you could not equip during the casting animation, it would be necessary to find sources that clearly state that if you attempt to equip a weapon during the casting animation, something happens to prevent you from completing that animation and casting the spell. As of now, there are zero pieces of evidence to that effect, and that is the only kind of evidence that can directly contradict the current implementation.

FishinPro wrote:This is interesting...True?



https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searc ... _oYNKkq34J

10/6/1999
Precasting means that you have already casted a spell and have not targeted
it. You can cast a spell, then hide and the target cursor is still there.

This is not interesting in the slightest. First, this is a poor definition for pre-casting, because casting any arbitrary targetable spell and just standing there is considered pre-casting under this definition. Second, the example contains something that can't be done. It is not possible to cast a spell and then hide as per the following 3/28/99 patch note:

You can no longer hide while casting a spell.

Has anyone tried this on the demo

Yes. This is where our evidence for the current system comes from. On the demo, you can cast a spell, and equip a weapon during the casting animation, and no interruption occurs.

Kaivan wrote:Yes. This is where our evidence for the current system comes from. On the demo, you can cast a spell, and equip a weapon during the casting animation, and no interruption occurs.

The demo is before 1999 though right? Or is the demo from where we are trying to be accurate from in 1999?

And I agree with FishinPro, if we are gunning for the Nov 1999 era, you couldnt equip during the middle of a cast before the target came up. Id look for proof too but so far hes doing a way better job then I would have done.

FishinPro wrote:

nightshark wrote:yeah the amount of hours i put in trying to find evidence to the contrary of what is currently on UOSA were wasted.

Took me 5 minutes rookie....

You should really just stop posting in the era accuracy forums. I've noticed a trend where you do a 5 minute search and some usenet post immediately convinces you are correct without even looking at the details of the post.

Menkaure wrote:

Kaivan wrote:Yes. This is where our evidence for the current system comes from. On the demo, you can cast a spell, and equip a weapon during the casting animation, and no interruption occurs.

The demo is before 1999 though right? Or is the demo from where we are trying to be accurate from in 1999?

And I agree with FishinPro, if we are gunning for the Nov 1999 era, you couldnt equip during the middle of a cast before the target came up. Id look for proof too but so far hes doing a way better job then I would have done.

It is, but without any evidence to suggest otherwise, we go with the best information that we have, which is the demo. As of now, no one has shown any evidence that contradicts what is found in the demo. Anecdotal information where players equip after the cursor is up is not contrary evidence.

nightshark wrote:

FishinPro wrote:

nightshark wrote:yeah the amount of hours i put in trying to find evidence to the contrary of what is currently on UOSA were wasted.

Took me 5 minutes rookie....

You should really just stop posting in the era accuracy forums. I've noticed a trend where you do a 5 minute search and some usenet post immediately convinces you are correct without even looking at the details of the post.

Never said that it was evidence enough...just something I found related to the topic. Still looking, don't hate.

I've seriously probably spent more than 10 hours searching for evidence on this very mechanic. If it exists then it's going to be in a really unexpected place.

I know what I'm about to say isn't evidence. I'm just saying this on account I had something happen to me so its how I know its was Christmas 1999. I beat Uz in a tourney to win a tower deed and it was dec 24th and I remember he lost from fizzling his heal by equipping during his cast accidentally. I'm not saying this is proof I'm not saying change the rules or anything, I'm just saying its how I remember the date.

nightshark wrote:I've seriously probably spent more than 10 hours searching for evidence on this very mechanic. If it exists then it's going to be in a really unexpected place.

Then that's where i'll look...

Menkaure wrote:I know what I'm about to say isn't evidence. I'm just saying this on account I had something happen to me so its how I know its was Christmas 1999. I beat Uz in a tourney to win a tower deed and it was dec 24th and I remember he lost from fizzling his heal by equipping during his cast accidentally. I'm not saying this is proof I'm not saying change the rules or anything, I'm just saying its how I remember the date.

It's possible he tried to targetSelf after he equipped hally, thus fizzling.

I'm 100% sure menk is correct!
Although I sometimes noticed here I could equip before the cast was done and still have it go through, I always put it down to me just not having the right feeling for the timing. I never equipped before I thought the cast was over, due to it fizzeling the spell on OSI shards.
I'm not kidding either, have been doing this ever since I started here nearly half a year ago because I 100% remembered it from OSI! It's definitely ERA to fizzle if you equip too early!

Here there's only once instance where I can reproduce this (and maybe this is why I never noticed how precasting works here): Open runebook, click on which ever rune you want to recall to, equip weapon, spell will fizzle.

Maybe you can work with that, look at the code as a base and somehow model that into all casting?

memememe wrote:I'm 100% sure menk is correct!
Although I sometimes noticed here I could equip before the cast was done and still have it go through, I always put it down to me just not having the right feeling for the timing. I never equipped before I thought the cast was over, due to it fizzeling the spell on OSI shards.
I'm not kidding either, have been doing this ever since I started here nearly half a year ago because I 100% remembered it from OSI! It's definitely ERA to fizzle if you equip too early!

Here there's only once instance where I can reproduce this (and maybe this is why I never noticed how precasting works here): Open runebook, click on which ever rune you want to recall to, equip weapon, spell will fizzle.

Maybe you can work with that, look at the code as a base and somehow model that into all casting?

The spell fizzles because you are trying to 'target' the spell while holding something. If you casted ebolt, equipped your hally and then hit last target it would also fizzle...