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Re: ITT: We discuss changes on testcenter as of 5/6.
Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 3:27 pm
by Faust
I am pretty positive that it doesn't only work in war mode on the demo and even in modern uo...
Re: ITT: We discuss changes on testcenter as of 5/6.
Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 5:00 pm
by malice-tg
Derrick wrote:The major changes presently on test center are:
- Your swing timer is not set to two seconds when disarming
This is no good.
Derrick wrote:[*]Lift/Use/Attack packets are throttled to an average on one per second, but grouped in such a way (lag compensation) what you can perform a couple actions withing a second. It's one second per action on average.
1 sec is way too long. it was virtually instant for attack last. / tab /lift ( with 3rd part). the actualy client lift use was always longer but you could do it faster with UOA.
Derrick wrote:[*]There is a recovery delay on both interruption and on spell cast. The delay is currently one second I believe.
I cant get a feel for interuption delay but it should be scaled or not implimented because 1sec is too long for small fast spells.
Derrick wrote:[*]Debuffs will disrupt even if the target is already debuffed. This has to my surprise been pretty well documented as accurate, at least to March 2000, and there's no evidence that I've seen showing that this was a new feature in 2000.
This tactic was widespread during UOR and not much during era on catskills pvp. I have a feeling this wasnt in for era... i think the harm interupt was probably the only garaunteed interupt because thats what people used on catskills for interuptions. we should consider tweaking it so harm is interuption everytime.
Derrick wrote:[*]There are probably some things I'm leaving out, I'll likely add more to this.[/list]
Please keep in mind that this is for testing. But I'm aware that we need to get something finalized for live as soon as possible.
Please consider changing so all phyiscal damage interupts. People used to have a chance to wrestle you not only to ruin your halberd swing but also punch and interupt your spell.
the throttle for attack last and lift can not be 1sec thats way to long. people routinely would cast harm and arm right after for various reasons and i believe those spells are too fast to cast and arm. i think the problem is there we need a throttle for some things but part of what UOA did was help "assist" the client so that you could do actions like arm/disarm faster. hard limits will really mess up pvp.
I have an era accurate macro that doesnt work on test because of changes. i thought i was just laggin but after reading this i think its part of the changes.
Derrick wrote:Thanks for making the thread. More descriptive posts would be appreciated.
Re: ITT: We discuss changes on testcenter as of 5/6.
Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 5:02 pm
by Pro
I don't know how u can fix it but the dueling on there is too slow to be fun.
Re: ITT: We discuss changes on testcenter as of 5/6.
Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 6:09 pm
by Creager
Im not feeling the interrupt delay on test.
Everything else seems relative, i dont have much of an opinion yet.
Re: ITT: We discuss changes on testcenter as of 5/6.
Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 6:12 pm
by Colisseus
With hally timers just about tripled now, no average pvper is going to die in these new changes...I've logged on to test it out multiple times and just left out of frustration when being handcuffed because there is nothing to do other than "debuff debuff debuff debuff".
So much for the era of hally mages...they are probably one of the worst templates in these changes.
Re: ITT: We discuss changes on testcenter as of 5/6.
Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 6:19 pm
by Kraarug
I'm wondering, exactly what changes people would have liked to see?
From what I am reading, unless the combat system has a fixed 2 second delay, lack of any real interrupts, lack of any recast delay or simply wasn't what we had a month ago then the change is no good.
Simply put, the previous combat system was to biased and, although it played very well towards a certain template and probably produced excellent duels, it was not era accurate and out of balance.
Changes towards T2A accuracy will change the previous system and will make other templates more viable at the expense of the inflated one. Perhaps that's not very popular but lamenting all the changes isn't not going to be very productive.
What needs to be provided is some kind of real input and evidence to make the system T2A correct.
Re: ITT: We discuss changes on testcenter as of 5/6.
Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 6:37 pm
by Kraarug
BlackFoot wrote:so what you do is hit with the hally, take the hally off, run away from the guy spamming attack last for 2 or 3 seconds adn then your hally is good to go again?
Basically yeah, something like that is what we had before.
Previously you had exactly 2000ms delay on all weapons no matter what their speed was. There are many reasons why that is off.
Based on the wrestling timer and a speed of 50, you'd have 2.4 to 3 seconds of wait time (depending on your stamina) to cycle a Hally but there is opposition to that because of issues with attack last.
Right now, there is no fast refresh on test and it plays out as what the '99 stratics weapon speed charts say it would have worked.
Re: ITT: We discuss changes on testcenter as of 5/6.
Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 8:34 pm
by Creager
One thing is for sure, these changes make hally's obsolete.
Re: ITT: We discuss changes on testcenter as of 5/6.
Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 9:13 pm
by Faust
Faust wrote:
Faust wrote:
Patch February 26th, 1999
An exploit for getting slow weapons to hit faster has been fixed.
Markee's Dragon February 26th, 1999
10) The disarm/arm exploit to get slow weapons to hit faster has been fixed. It will not be to your advantage to disarm/rearm a weapon.
UO Stratics Early February 1999
Disarming Weapons: gives a 2 second delay. Ok, wonderful but this goes hand in hand with the hit being calculated at the beginning of each swing to cause further inbalances.
First paragrah is a patch in the actual patch notes..
Second paragraph is an explanation of the patch note at markee's dragon..
Third paragraph is an article on stratics written in early February '99 griping about the upcoming changes..
Fact Sheet:
- The disarm delay is still in Utlima Online today with a very small slight modification over the decade that the game mechanic has existed.
- Only time the disarm delay has EVER been mentioned anywhere including patch notes is in the '99 stratics article.
- The disarm delay does not exist in the UO Demo, which was last compiled in August/September of '98.
- The only thing found even remotely related to a "fix surrounding disarming/arming" is a disarm delay...
What else really needs to be said?
Re: ITT: We discuss changes on testcenter as of 5/6.
Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 9:33 pm
by nightshark
malice-tg wrote:Derrick wrote:Debuffs will disrupt even if the target is already debuffed. This has to my surprise been pretty well documented as accurate, at least to March 2000, and there's no evidence that I've seen showing that this was a new feature in 2000.
This tactic was widespread during UOR and not much during era on catskills pvp. I have a feeling this wasnt in for era... i think the harm interupt was probably the only garaunteed interupt because thats what people used on catskills for interuptions. we should consider tweaking it so harm is interuption everytime.
I dunno how people can't remember debuff interrupt spam. I clearly remember it being commonplace in duel pits on Wakoku. I left Wakoku well before UO:R release, so I know my memory is not fuzzy on that one.
Re: ITT: We discuss changes on testcenter as of 5/6.
Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 1:04 am
by Kraarug
Faust wrote:Faust wrote:
Faust wrote:
Patch February 26th, 1999
An exploit for getting slow weapons to hit faster has been fixed.
Markee's Dragon February 26th, 1999
10) The disarm/arm exploit to get slow weapons to hit faster has been fixed. It will not be to your advantage to disarm/rearm a weapon.
UO Stratics Early February 1999
Disarming Weapons: gives a 2 second delay. Ok, wonderful but this goes hand in hand with the hit being calculated at the beginning of each swing to cause further inbalances.
First paragrah is a patch in the actual patch notes..
Second paragraph is an explanation of the patch note at markee's dragon..
Third paragraph is an article on stratics written in early February '99 griping about the upcoming changes..
Fact Sheet:
- The disarm delay is still in Utlima Online today with a very small slight modification over the decade that the game mechanic has existed.
- Only time the disarm delay has EVER been mentioned anywhere including patch notes is in the '99 stratics article.
- The disarm delay does not exist in the UO Demo, which was last compiled in August/September of '98.
- The only thing found even remotely related to a "fix surrounding disarming/arming" is a disarm delay...
What else really needs to be said?
You need to put those statements back into the proper timeline. This is the second time I've had to mention this to you...
The proper order?
- UO Stratics Early February 1999 (You know the page was dated 2.1.99)
Disarming Weapons: gives a 2 second delay. Ok, wonderful but this goes hand in hand with the hit being calculated at the beginning of each swing to cause further inbalances.
Patch February 26th, 1999
An exploit for getting slow weapons to hit faster has been fixed.
Markee's Dragon February 26th, 1999
10) The disarm/arm exploit to get slow weapons to hit faster has been fixed. It will not be to your advantage to disarm/rearm a weapon.
And you know why that order is important too. Because it shows that the poster and possible member of the stratics staff would have been aware that the bug was not fixed 3 WEEKS BEFORE the date of the patch.
So in other words, if the mechanism worked like you suggest the dev board would have had 3+ weeks that to fix the complaint described by Lord Hades, if indeed he was talking about a flat one size fits all timer.
You're treament of facts, like the treatment of time and the attitude you show those that disagree with you weakens your objective credibility.
Re: ITT: We discuss changes on testcenter as of 5/6.
Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 1:46 am
by Tronica
nightshark wrote:malice-tg wrote:Derrick wrote:Debuffs will disrupt even if the target is already debuffed. This has to my surprise been pretty well documented as accurate, at least to March 2000, and there's no evidence that I've seen showing that this was a new feature in 2000.
This tactic was widespread during UOR and not much during era on catskills pvp. I have a feeling this wasnt in for era... i think the harm interupt was probably the only garaunteed interupt because thats what people used on catskills for interuptions. we should consider tweaking it so harm is interuption everytime.
I dunno how people can't remember debuff interrupt spam. I clearly remember it being commonplace in duel pits on Wakoku. I left Wakoku well before UO:R release, so I know my memory is not fuzzy on that one.
ditto
everyone debuff spammed for interupts.
i rememer this from when i first started uo because i was a newb and didnt get why people casted weaken over and over
Re: ITT: We discuss changes on testcenter as of 5/6.
Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 8:50 am
by Faust
Kraarug wrote:
Faust wrote:
Patch February 26th, 1999
An exploit for getting slow weapons to hit faster has been fixed.
Markee's Dragon February 26th, 1999
10) The disarm/arm exploit to get slow weapons to hit faster has been fixed. It will not be to your advantage to disarm/rearm a weapon.
UO Stratics Early February 1999
Disarming Weapons: gives a 2 second delay. Ok, wonderful but this goes hand in hand with the hit being calculated at the beginning of each swing to cause further inbalances.
First paragrah is a patch in the actual patch notes..
Second paragraph is an explanation of the patch note at markee's dragon..
Third paragraph is an article on stratics written in early February '99 griping about the upcoming changes..
Fact Sheet:
- The disarm delay is still in Utlima Online today with a very small slight modification over the decade that the game mechanic has existed.
- Only time the disarm delay has EVER been mentioned anywhere including patch notes is in the '99 stratics article.
- The disarm delay does not exist in the UO Demo, which was last compiled in August/September of '98.
- The only thing found even remotely related to a "fix surrounding disarming/arming" is a disarm delay...
What else really needs to be said?
You need to put those statements back into the proper timeline. This is the second time I've had to mention this to you...
The proper order?
- UO Stratics Early February 1999 (You know the page was dated 2.1.99)
Disarming Weapons: gives a 2 second delay. Ok, wonderful but this goes hand in hand with the hit being calculated at the beginning of each swing to cause further inbalances.
Patch February 26th, 1999
An exploit for getting slow weapons to hit faster has been fixed.
Markee's Dragon February 26th, 1999
10) The disarm/arm exploit to get slow weapons to hit faster has been fixed. It will not be to your advantage to disarm/rearm a weapon.
And you know why that order is important too. Because it shows that the poster and possible member of the stratics staff would have been aware that the bug was not fixed 3 WEEKS BEFORE the date of the patch.
So in other words, if the mechanism worked like you suggest the dev board would have had 3+ weeks that to fix the complaint described by Lord Hades, if indeed he was talking about a flat one size fits all timer.
You're treament of facts, like the treatment of time and the attitude you show those that disagree with you weakens your objective credibility.
Faust - "Third paragraph is an article on stratics written in early February '99 griping about the upcoming changes.."
Failed reading much?
How about a realistic scenario? If my memory isn't failing me insta hit was patched in February 2nd, 1999... This article was written one day prior to the release of that patch. The change was up on the test center for at least a couple weeks like everything else before and after it. The exploit that was fixed to get slow weapons to hit faster could have been anything for all we know. We know that it involved arming and disarming a weapon based on the written article from Markee's Dragon. However, the facts still remain that we have an exploit that was obvioulsy brought on from the addition of insta hit that involves a patch note, patch description, and an article that states weapons being disarmed giving a 2 second delay during the same time period.
PS
Your treatment of the "dev team" working in the same manner as modern times is your failure to understand or grasp simple concepts...
Re: ITT: We discuss changes on testcenter as of 5/6.
Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 12:00 pm
by Derrick
New patch on test center.
Action delay has been shortened somewhat, recast delays have been lengthened somewhat from what they were this morning. The disarm will again affect your wepon swing, but it's somewhat stamina based.
We still have some issues off accuracy to hash out on these numbers, but I think we need to get something up in live as soon as possible and then continue to work behind the scenes to validate some of these mechanincs.
Re: ITT: We discuss changes on testcenter as of 5/6.
Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 12:14 pm
by Finesse
debuffs always disturbing imo is not in question this is something that deffently happened.
harm disturbed based on resist it didnt always disturb same with magic arrow if you remeber using harm to disturb recalls during this era its most likely because you dungeon pked people who wernt at gm resist.
im gonna try these test changes now.