Why cut bandages one at a time while runebooks exist?

[Hemperor]

I know runebooks are not era accurate to this shard. Even Derrick has said so.

runebooks, which are not era-accurate anyway

It blows my mind that people are still saying runebooks are not era accurate. Unblessed runebooks are era accurate. On one side, guys ask why we have them, and on the other side they ask why they are not blessed.

It's been posted in response to the statement above many many times, likely a couple times in this thread:
http://wiki.uosecondage.com/index.php?t ... 11/23/1999

[archaicsubrosa77]

Runebooks are accurate as discussed in Oct 99 earlier then what you thought
http://groups.google.be/group/rec.games ... ca3902db93

[Ronk]

In all honesty this post was not bashing the changes to cutting up bandages. It was bashing the lack of changes to runebooks. I am all for era accuracy.

Will you please learn to read?

Rune Books Nov 23 1999 1:12PM CST Rune Books
Rune Books are designed to help reduce the total number of runes in the game and to assist rune libraries with the lock down changes. Rune Books will allow players to keep far fewer runes in their bank boxes and houses while still being able to carry a regular rune when travelling outside of town.

Quit saying they are out of era when they are clearly not and proven not to be numerous times in the past.

I was under the impresion that Nov 23, 1999 was after the cutoff date.

See this thread: http://forum.uosecondage.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8968

It talks about the housing patch which has Nov 23, 1999. To which Kaivan responds:

For the house lock downs, the information was part of the new lock down system being introduced on OSI servers. Our target time frame for housing is before that patch note, and thus we don't have any of the features included in that patch.

Maybe I misunderstood the meaning.

[Caswallon]

In all honesty this post was not bashing the changes to cutting up bandages. It was bashing the lack of changes to runebooks. I am all for era accuracy.

Will you please learn to read?

Rune Books Nov 23 1999 1:12PM CST Rune Books
Rune Books are designed to help reduce the total number of runes in the game and to assist rune libraries with the lock down changes. Rune Books will allow players to keep far fewer runes in their bank boxes and houses while still being able to carry a regular rune when travelling outside of town.

Quit saying they are out of era when they are clearly not and proven not to be numerous times in the past.

I was under the impresion that Nov 23, 1999 was after the cutoff date.

See this thread: http://forum.uosecondage.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8968

It talks about the housing patch which has Nov 23, 1999. To which Kaivan responds:

For the house lock downs, the information was part of the new lock down system being introduced on OSI servers. Our target time frame for housing is before that patch note, and thus we don't have any of the features included in that patch.

Maybe I misunderstood the meaning.

Target time frame for housing. Its quite simple really, the reason housing is an expception is because if we use that system we eliminate house looting, a big mechanic of T2A. Thats why housing uses the previous
system no?

And i thought cut off dat was December 31st 1999 but some patch in the lead up to that are ignored due to them being UO:R precursors?

[XaN]

T2a... my T2a did not have runebooks. I did not have a runebook, my friend did not have a runebook and his friend the Hermit did not have one either. I say ERA ACCURACY! is most important here, not peoples rune libraries.

If I have to cut a bandage 1 at a time (I will only play a dexer) I will use Magery instead of Healing. If you cannot adapt to what you got yourself into, then gtfo.

I also don't recall Rune Libraries... but im just a guy who's played the game since its beginning and what I know is totally lacking any intelligence at all.

[archaicsubrosa77]

Runebooks are accurate as discussed in Oct 99 earlier then what you thought
http://groups.google.be/group/rec.games ... ca3902db93

Hello remember this it happened earlier then november....this is the original post the november post you have is dated to match the last reply....
Trust me it kicked me in the butt on the gating monsters thing

[Faust]

Runebook.cs

Code: Select all

public override void Deserialize()
{
 this.Delete();
}

Not hard at all to delete them all at once son.

Our target time frame is the last patch in '99 and Derrick has made this quite clear on MORE than one occassion. The housing system is the only exception to this rule based on their reasoning. I personally prefer that this wasn't the case but it's the way it is son.

[Hoots]

http://wiki.uosecondage.com/index.php?t ... 11/23/1999

Ok, for those of you calling to remove runebooks, see above,

You are asking to remove
Runebooks
Potion Kegs
Seeing the age of a house
Makers Mark
Bank Box weight... THINK ABOUT THAT... your bank having a 400 stone weight limit like it used to be...
SKILL MANAGEMENT!... aka skill locks... bye bye to ever having a 7x character bc either wrestling or someone lighting camp fires will give you unwanted skills...
Coowners for house...


Ok, so slow down, calm yourself and realize what you are asking for. Raging over having to set up a razor macro to cut aids should not make you want to have a bank with 400 stone limit, no coowners, no SKILL LOCKS and runebooks and potion kegs etc.

As much as i like reading people telling faust to put his d1ck in his mouth and as much i love him calling people son in reply....he is right. Everything from this publish is in except for housing changing which would make house looting less possible than it already is here.

Relax guys... macro cutting aids is not the end of the world (or virtual world)

[Caranthir]

[Rant]

I don't think anyone is raging about having to set up a macro. It seems more that the issue is used as a strawman argument to discredit the OP and his argument.

People here attack OP for supposedly nitpicking, when pretty much everything that has to do with proving supposed era accuracy is exactly that, ancient screenshots, random players from ten years ago complaining in some newsgroup posts, etc. etc..

I think the original argument that is being made by OP, with which I agree, is how do we determine era accuracy and how do we weigh the benefits of accuracy versus those of improved gameplay? People are constantly ripping shards like DFI and Hybrid for attempting to create an UO experience by drawing from different era's and ideas to improve gameplay, but essentially this shard does exactly the same.

While it has prescribed itself to the T2A era, things like fully automated tournaments and trophy points are everything but era accurate. However, exactly the same people that whine about era accuracy and insult other people in this thread are the ones that would throw a hissyfit if they lost their beloved source of extra income and rares.

The question is then not solely about era accuracy but about where the trade-off between era accuracy and convenience starts hurting the shard. As previously pointed out, removing runebooks would do a lot of damage to the shard and there are benefits to keeping them. Similarly, potion kegs fulfill a role of convenience that very few people here probably could do without, as do bank limits etc.

So why do we then remove checks, cutting bandis in a lot etc.? There are obviously plenty of things that aren't era accurate but serve a purpose of convenience, entertainment or enriching the gameplay experience.

People need to stop being self-righteous ass***** and insulting each over their prescribed perception of era accuracy and have a sensible debate about where to draw a line between era accuracy and enrichment of gameplay. This doesn't mean that we should include special blows and what not, but rather that there could be a fruitful debate about keeping things like checks and bandi bulk cutting.

[/Rant]

[Caswallon]

Sigh

The tournys and trophy system is a feature that adds to the shard, giving people more reason to play, and something to do. The fact that its not era accurate is neither here nor there as it does not effect game mechanics, nor is it active on the actual gameworld, its completely seperate. Its there as a nice side bonus, a bit of extra entertainment and fun.

If you want to lessen the shard, go head, cry and get it removed. And no, before you claim im biased, I dont go to tournys or use the trophy system.

If we want to talk about hurting the shard, you can start up there ^, by removing an entertaining, fun featur which in no way damages the era accurate play mechanics, and adds to the shard, and then talk about how shards like Divinity cave too player demands, thus damaging the shard. If you want that to happen here, please, go on.

How do we define era accuracy? Simple really, if it was in before the year 2000, its accurate, with the exception of housing, because it would be stupid to use a system that was in place for one month, that was tied to UO:R and CUB, instead of the system that was in place for the majority of the era.

I believe Derrick has stated multiple times that cutting bandies one at a time is something he feels strongly about, and has wanted in for a long time. I cant see a few peoplemoaning changing that. Off course i dont want to cut bandages one at a time, thats why i have 10,000 cut, and have done for weeks. I want a small tower too, but oh well.

[Faust]

Arguing about events when it comes to era accuracy isn't possible. The events that happened on original shards varied from shard to shard. This argument is no different than trying to argue macroing and policy decisions. The events is not a game mechanic(what is being replicated here based on accuracy) not the different policies from one shard to the next that isn't possible to replicate. This is like trying to argue the Iron Oak invassion(the unique Iron reaper in Brit GY on the Baja shard) isn't accurate since it didn't happen on another shard. The events may in fact be automated but this is simply an improvement to the policy based on very few staff. Again, still not a game mechanic change but a policy change sinc events were UNIQUE. The events here are simply unique to this shard no different than the unique quality that other shards have, nothing more.

Now trying to argue bandages cutting towards policy change isn't feesible. Bandages cutting one by one HAPPENED on ALL shards unlike the unique events that happened from one shard to the next... This is the difference between game mechanic replication that is this server's main goal and policy decision replication which isn't the goal of this shard due to the fact it's not even possible. Trying to argue both topics into one isn't possible unless one shard had existed in the OSI shard list which obviously was never the case. You cannot replicate policy no different than trying to replicate your/mine/anyone's personal or social experience that they had during the t2a era. It just isn't possible unless you figured out how to build a time machine.

[Caranthir]

The events are not part of the game mechanics??? You joking right? During event times, the shard basically empties in the pre-designated, no-attack, no-stealing, no-looting areas that have been custom designed for them. Furthermore, the events have created a parallel economy for trophy points which in turn are invested in rares, completely outside of the usually competitive obtaining of rares. Sorry but that argument doesn't really cut it for me.

[Hawkins]

Sigh

The tournys and trophy system is a feature that adds to the shard, giving people more reason to play, and something to do. The fact that its not era accurate is neither here nor there as it does not effect game mechanics, nor is it active on the actual gameworld, its completely seperate. Its there as a nice side bonus, a bit of extra entertainment and fun.

If you want to lessen the shard, go head, cry and get it removed. And no, before you claim im biased, I dont go to tournys or use the trophy system.

If we want to talk about hurting the shard, you can start up there ^, by removing an entertaining, fun featur which in no way damages the era accurate play mechanics, and adds to the shard, and then talk about how shards like Divinity cave too player demands, thus damaging the shard. If you want that to happen here, please, go on.

How do we define era accuracy? Simple really, if it was in before the year 2000, its accurate, with the exception of housing, because it would be stupid to use a system that was in place for one month, that was tied to UO:R and CUB, instead of the system that was in place for the majority of the era.

I believe Derrick has stated multiple times that cutting bandies one at a time is something he feels strongly about, and has wanted in for a long time. I cant see a few peoplemoaning changing that. Off course i dont want to cut bandages one at a time, thats why i have 10,000 cut, and have done for weeks. I want a small tower too, but oh well.

That entire post is full of what we are talking about.

This server obviously caters to player demands, otherwise the tourney system wouldn't be in and housing would be accurate. You all want to break into houses and steal things out of locked down chests, so we conveniently ignore housing optimizations that were made in this era. You PvP'rs want some fun, so there is a tourney system.

Stop using the argument that Era Accuracy trumps our thoughts/desires, unless you are willing to apply that same logic to your own thoughts and desires.

I sincerely hope that some thought is put into this before you do something really silly, like remove guild chat in the name of Era Accuracy.

[Hoots]

People need to stop being self-righteous ass***** and insulting each over their prescribed perception of era accuracy and have a sensible debate about where to draw a line between era accuracy and enrichment of gameplay. This doesn't mean that we should include special blows and what not, but rather that there could be a fruitful debate about keeping things like checks and bandi bulk cutting.

Im with you 110% here. The problem for the devs (imho) is as soon as you allow debate, and essentially allow player opinion to make changes, you enter a very slippery slope.

I dont really see the event system as being (out of era). I know it didnt exist in OSI but it is really just taking mechancis that did exist and letting people use them in a regulated form.

As far as rewards and trophies go. I could really care less about them. In being here almost a year the only trophies i have are from a partial payment i accepted in trade.

The nov 23 patch is the cutoff date. The housing lock downs are not included bc they were basically a prepatch for UOR which was the end of t2a. House looting was always a part of T2a so it seems to make sense they would exclude that.

Im fine with adding it... IMHO you have to be an idiot to get your house looted anyway. I guess from a arguement standpoint you would have a better chance of getting more secure lockdowns added then removing everything else from the patch.

Then it would be a hard date of 11-23-99 and no debate right?

Events (and what i think the real issue is), and trophies/rewards are always a heated debate. I wouldnt be surprised to see changes to that system...

But, as you say in your post... It is one of those things that enhances gameplay.... It builds community and has many other benefits with no real downside (save rewards debate).

Unfortunatly what i think happens is... anytime someone is pizzed about a era mechanic (and im no different, some make me mad as well!) they bang on events as being out of era to base their arguement on. If this continues i wouldnt be surprised to see them go away and that is probably not best for the shard.

[Faust]

Caranthir,

Perhaps, the event was designed to be that way...

Did you ever think about that?

Who has the right to declare that an event isn't allowed to function a specific way when they were unique on OSI shards?

Not you, not me, not anyone.

The events here are custom and no different than the numerous custom events that OSI had. Just because you don't like how the event was constructed and pans out doesn't mean it's inaccurate at all. There were multiple items that were given out at events on OSI shards. One on Baja gave out this dark blue teleport staff that people thought the guy cheated to get from a GM.