UO Second Age

Teriyl wrote:I've said it in both posts and I don't know how many more ways I can say it so let me try to be perfectly clear....I do not give two shits about events or you or any other GM creating a fucking thing. I'm merely making an observation that the population is trending down, and that if it continues to trend the way it has, there won't be anyone left for you to make snyde comments to. So let's be accurate together till all that's left is vega talking to himself about how awesome and rich he is.

Let's review!

Does Teriyl care about events? - Fuck No!

Does Teriyl want Kaivan to do anything for him or the server? - Absolutely not!

I hope I made that clear enough this time, apparently I was vague before.

Teriyl wrote:ANYTHING to do on the server can't hurt at this point. It's just easier to be passive aggressive to the population on the forums though.

It's difficult to have any discourse when you're blatantly saying certain things, and then in the next post, you deny what you just said.

I'm not sure how me saying anything to do would imply that I expect you to do something about it. I'm saying the server is stale. Please don't project your feelings on my post.

If you're here to have a dialogue with the player base, then speak to us and maybe we can come up with something together.

I don't know if you're being facetious or not, but your post pretty clearly expected me (or us in the general sense) to do something about the state of the server. I really shouldn't have to spell out that fact.

I'm not here to have a dialogue about events, I was here to answer the question that was asked.

I truly do not expect you or the staff to do anything. The server is stale despite efforts from players like Vintrex trying to keep player run events going. We all know staff is not going to do anything about it, that's fine, there aren't enough players for it to be worth a shit anymore anyway.

This whole conversation about events is moot, the thread should be locked so we don't have to hear all the bullshit anymore. Can we all just let this place die in peace please?

I certainly think that my participation in this thread is now moot. You've clarified your position, and I've answered the other questions. There is no point in cluttering this thread any further.

Ok Kaivan, we all know where you stand. You've never been a friendly
Gm, we get it, you want era accuracy and that's it.
The problem is, that gem encrusted liches aren't era accurate but allowed.
Dungeon crawls with tons of mobs aren't era accurate but allowed.
Trophies allowed, neon sandals exist, heck ice white cloth was just given out not long ago.
If you can evolve with these, why not other things?
And secondly, I'd LOVE to hear what the other gms think, cause, the ones I talked to seem to not have an issue with events coming back. So if they can answer with their opinion honestly without worrying to please you, or not say something that could be held against them, lets hear it.
I respect you Kaivan, you've always held your ground. The issue I have is that you come off as a power stricken tyrant at times instead of a gm of a player run/driven shard.
We are the ones who make this shard. I love Derrick for creating it, but without its players, this shard is nothing, so why not just once In a while instead of shooting it down, giving it a try?

Based upon Kaivan's ever so solid logic, please embark on removing any and all items from the game that are not era accurate:

1) Any and all indestructable neon sandals and masks.
2) Glacial staffs.
3) All silver, the silver system and all rewards given out via the silver system.
4) All trophies.
5) Ice white cloth.

All are inaccurate, and were never present on production shards. If you are going to live by the accuracy sword, then by all means throw yourself directly on it else you are nothing but a hypocrite.

Since events will never return as this shard is only about accuracy, you need to enforce it 100%. I suggest you start with neons.....but it is up to you since you are in no way beholden to us.

Kaivan and Staff,

I'm sorry that this is in the wrong place but I figure with all the controversy here, why not. I understand that era accuracy exceeds any goal of the mission statement rather than having a shiny amount of players on this server. I also feel that peoples issues with this shard is that they fell in love with how great the mechanics were constructed, and how well the PvP plays out. I'm aware that this is a logical deduction wherein the spoiled milk of a concept that used to exist from staff has a direct correlation to the dominate, large voices of this server(PvPers) feeling dismay. Albeit my proper address to you and the rest of the staff isn't about this.

My questions are simple, and I believe them to be less immaterial where the actual overall population of the server is hit, not just the whiners. Why are we no longer on JoinUO.com? Why do the numbers of players online no longer show on the webpage? Lastly, why is there no real encouragement by staff to vote or promote the server in any real way? I understand that pushing things on people isn't very compatible with success, but look at where we're at. This is a community, and any community without specialized outreach efforts collapses on itself.

Curious,

Vega

Capitalist wrote:My questions are simple, and I believe them to be less immaterial where the actual overall population of the server is hit, not just the whiners. Why are we no longer on JoinUO.com? Why do the numbers of players online no longer show on the webpage? Lastly, why is there no real encouragement by staff to vote or promote the server in any real way? I understand that pushing things on people isn't very compatible with success, but look at where we're at. This is a community, and any community without specialized outreach efforts collapses on itself.

We are no longer listed on JoinUO due to the fact that JoinUO is no longer owned by Derrick, and a recent overhaul removed all of the server listings and statistics, which is what the online count was drawn from.

As to your second question, what kind of encouragement beyond having others to play with can feasibly be provided? We certainly can't provide in-game rewards for voting or promotion of the server.

Menkaure wrote:Ok Kaivan, we all know where you stand. You've never been a friendly
Gm, we get it, you want era accuracy and that's it.

I want to accomplish the goals of the server which is mechanical accuracy. What you're suggesting is that because I want to accomplish that goal, I am unfriendly for not accepting ideas that go against that goal. There is a difference between disagreeing with you and sticking by a commitment, and being unfriendly.

Menkaure wrote:The problem is, that gem encrusted liches aren't era accurate but allowed.

Specialized and unique creatures were used on specific OSI servers both as individual and widely spawning creatures. A good example is the Father of The Damned which was only seen on Chesapeake.

Menkaure wrote:Dungeon crawls with tons of mobs aren't era accurate but allowed.

Actually, special events where dungeons, graveyards, and other areas were spawned with additional creatures did happen, albeit unevenly across OSI servers. The suspension of mechanics in this way is completely normal, and not even in the same category as the events you want to occur.

Menkaure wrote:Trophies allowed, neon sandals exist, heck ice white cloth was just given out not long ago.

Trophies are part of an entirely non-automated system that we use to replicate, to some degree, the existence of unique and rare items on OSI servers. Sandals are a grandfathered item, and the mechanic to produce them no longer exists. Ice white cloth was an unintentional item, and like the sandals (which weren't intentional either), we prevented the mechanic that allowed the production of more ice white cloth, while grandfathering existing cloth. There's a difference between grandfathering items, and leaving the mechanic in place to produce more.

Menkaure wrote:And secondly, I'd LOVE to hear what the other gms think, cause, the ones I talked to seem to not have an issue with events coming back. So if they can answer with their opinion honestly without worrying to please you, or not say something that could be held against them, lets hear it.

What makes you think that the other GMs will hold their tongue because I won't be pleased with their responses? Your statement seems to imply that not only do I attempt to strong arm other GMs into saying certain things, but that if they do so, that's evidence that I am doing exactly that.

Menkaure wrote:I respect you Kaivan, you've always held your ground. The issue I have is that you come off as a power stricken tyrant at times instead of a gm of a player run/driven shard.

If you think that I'm a power stricken tyrant because I don't agree with you, then I have no respect for you whatsoever. I've explained on multiple occasions that the first mandate of the server is mechanical accuracy, and you're asking us to ignore that mandate for something you want. If we ignored it for that reason, then there is absolutely no justification for keeping any mechanic as it stands. If recognizing that makes me a tyrant, then your definition of someone who isn't a tyrant is someone who will do what you tell them to do, and that is not laudable in any way.

Brules wrote:Based upon Kaivan's ever so solid logic, please embark on removing any and all items from the game that are not era accurate:

1) Any and all indestructable neon sandals and masks.
2) Glacial staffs.
3) All silver, the silver system and all rewards given out via the silver system.
4) All trophies.
5) Ice white cloth.

All are inaccurate, and were never present on production shards. If you are going to live by the accuracy sword, then by all means throw yourself directly on it else you are nothing but a hypocrite.

Since events will never return as this shard is only about accuracy, you need to enforce it 100%. I suggest you start with neons.....but it is up to you since you are in no way beholden to us.

I've already explained this above, but I'll repeat it here. "Neon" items are grandfathered from a mechanic that allowed them to be produced. They cannot be produced anymore, and therefore, we are mechanically accurate (same with blessed items). Glacial staffs were grandfathered from the beginning of the server when the mechanic to drop them used to be in place. The mechanic to produce more no longer exists, but the grandfathered item stays. The entire silver system exists as our approximation of special items for participating in special events similarly to what OSI servers did, and it is not a mechanic. Existing ice white cloth is grandfathered, and the mechanic to produce more cloth has been removed.

To put it as clearly as possible: There is a difference between the item and the mechanic that produced the item. The item itself exists, but the mechanic to produce more of that item no longer exists, which therefore means that we are as mechanically accurate as possible in that area.

I wasn't suggesting an in-game reward, I'm not that extreme or ignorant. However, I feel like outside of Mammoth there is literally no interaction between staff and players. Not to say you're not replying to this thread, but no independent effort to just have basic interaction with people. Azheman flaming Anarcho to get a response in IRC? Not really what I mean either. Like I said, it's all about the outreach. Specifically do I have a design prepared where staff could enhance promotion and inevitably population? No, no I don't. However, if any of you or even I thought about it, results would be easy to yield.

Well, the assumption that ease of contact should exist isn't really feasible. Like most players, we have lives and obligations that don't allow us to spend all of our time here. All that I can say is that we've made the best effort possible to be available when needed, and to stay out of the way when when we aren't needed.

Menkaure wrote:

Kaivan wrote:The answer is still the same as before: We will not be bringing the old event system back in any capacity. You'll find that position shared by all the staff members.

So all those things that were said in this thread by the gm were just bs?


Glad so many people took the time to answer them honestly and put thought into them.

No, it definitely wasn't BS. I think you instantly assumed by "events" I was specfically talking about these old automated games. Below are my personal thoughts on the situation.

As of now, there are no plans on "switching on" the old event system in the future. However, the world of Britannia will become more active and you can expect more things occurring throughout the land. Since this year began we've had 4-5 events (this does not include pure-player events). Whereas some of you don't consider these "events" but these would be the types of events that occurred on production shards. And for anyone who's been around the shard for at least 2 or 3 years, you probably know this is the most active things have been in quite some time.

These old automated systems are simply not in the shard's blueprint and should not exist. Before anyone starts to jump on the "but this other feature we have isn't era accurate" bandwagon, remember that is not an excuse or a reason to allow another non-accurate feature to be added back into the system. They were removed to get closer to an accurate representation of the era.

Kaivan wrote:Accuracy is the most major component of why the old event system won't come back. There was never a time during the era when players were transported to a little hermetically sealed environment where they could enjoy a part of the game without interference. Beyond that, there are various issues that have been brought up and have contributed to the opinions of different staff members. I'll let them speak on their opinions if they choose to.

I respect the adherence to era accuracy. It has served us well over the years.

What's frustrating is that many non-accurate things occur/exist here, but for some reason events are prohibited. The inconsistency is frustrating and certainly unnecessary.

Anyway, I do think that eventually the lack of flexibility on events will contribute to and hasten the shrinking of the player base. When era accuracy becomes more sacrosanct than the survival of the shard, well that is what some would call madness.

I'm not trying to be obnoxious, but I wonder if the staff can take a deep breath, extract their dug-in heels from the long-existing trench of era accuracy, and take a FRESH, unbiased view of what's most important - adherence to the dogma of era accuracy, or a shard still steeped in era accuracy that makes more non-accurate gestures to encourage a more enjoyable and populated shard.

Kaivan wrote:

Capitalist wrote:My questions are simple, and I believe them to be less immaterial where the actual overall population of the server is hit, not just the whiners. Why are we no longer on JoinUO.com? Why do the numbers of players online no longer show on the webpage? Lastly, why is there no real encouragement by staff to vote or promote the server in any real way? I understand that pushing things on people isn't very compatible with success, but look at where we're at. This is a community, and any community without specialized outreach efforts collapses on itself.

We are no longer listed on JoinUO due to the fact that JoinUO is no longer owned by Derrick, and a recent overhaul removed all of the server listings and statistics, which is what the online count was drawn from.

As to your second question, what kind of encouragement beyond having others to play with can feasibly be provided? We certainly can't provide in-game rewards for voting or promotion of the server.

Menkaure wrote:Ok Kaivan, we all know where you stand. You've never been a friendly
Gm, we get it, you want era accuracy and that's it.

I want to accomplish the goals of the server which is mechanical accuracy. What you're suggesting is that because I want to accomplish that goal, I am unfriendly for not accepting ideas that go against that goal. There is a difference between disagreeing with you and sticking by a commitment, and being unfriendly.

Menkaure wrote:The problem is, that gem encrusted liches aren't era accurate but allowed.

Specialized and unique creatures were used on specific OSI servers both as individual and widely spawning creatures. A good example is the Father of The Damned which was only seen on Chesapeake.

Menkaure wrote:Dungeon crawls with tons of mobs aren't era accurate but allowed.

Actually, special events where dungeons, graveyards, and other areas were spawned with additional creatures did happen, albeit unevenly across OSI servers. The suspension of mechanics in this way is completely normal, and not even in the same category as the events you want to occur.

Menkaure wrote:Trophies allowed, neon sandals exist, heck ice white cloth was just given out not long ago.

Trophies are part of an entirely non-automated system that we use to replicate, to some degree, the existence of unique and rare items on OSI servers. Sandals are a grandfathered item, and the mechanic to produce them no longer exists. Ice white cloth was an unintentional item, and like the sandals (which weren't intentional either), we prevented the mechanic that allowed the production of more ice white cloth, while grandfathering existing cloth. There's a difference between grandfathering items, and leaving the mechanic in place to produce more.

Menkaure wrote:And secondly, I'd LOVE to hear what the other gms think, cause, the ones I talked to seem to not have an issue with events coming back. So if they can answer with their opinion honestly without worrying to please you, or not say something that could be held against them, lets hear it.

What makes you think that the other GMs will hold their tongue because I won't be pleased with their responses? Your statement seems to imply that not only do I attempt to strong arm other GMs into saying certain things, but that if they do so, that's evidence that I am doing exactly that.

Menkaure wrote:I respect you Kaivan, you've always held your ground. The issue I have is that you come off as a power stricken tyrant at times instead of a gm of a player run/driven shard.

If you think that I'm a power stricken tyrant because I don't agree with you, then I have no respect for you whatsoever. I've explained on multiple occasions that the first mandate of the server is mechanical accuracy, and you're asking us to ignore that mandate for something you want. If we ignored it for that reason, then there is absolutely no justification for keeping any mechanic as it stands. If recognizing that makes me a tyrant, then your definition of someone who isn't a tyrant is someone who will do what you tell them to do, and that is not laudable in any way.

Brules wrote:Based upon Kaivan's ever so solid logic, please embark on removing any and all items from the game that are not era accurate:

1) Any and all indestructable neon sandals and masks.
2) Glacial staffs.
3) All silver, the silver system and all rewards given out via the silver system.
4) All trophies.
5) Ice white cloth.

All are inaccurate, and were never present on production shards. If you are going to live by the accuracy sword, then by all means throw yourself directly on it else you are nothing but a hypocrite.

Since events will never return as this shard is only about accuracy, you need to enforce it 100%. I suggest you start with neons.....but it is up to you since you are in no way beholden to us.

I've already explained this above, but I'll repeat it here. "Neon" items are grandfathered from a mechanic that allowed them to be produced. They cannot be produced anymore, and therefore, we are mechanically accurate (same with blessed items). Glacial staffs were grandfathered from the beginning of the server when the mechanic to drop them used to be in place. The mechanic to produce more no longer exists, but the grandfathered item stays. The entire silver system exists as our approximation of special items for participating in special events similarly to what OSI servers did, and it is not a mechanic. Existing ice white cloth is grandfathered, and the mechanic to produce more cloth has been removed.

To put it as clearly as possible: There is a difference between the item and the mechanic that produced the item. The item itself exists, but the mechanic to produce more of that item no longer exists, which therefore means that we are as mechanically accurate as possible in that area.

Kaivan I don't think your a power stricken tyrant because you don't agree with me, I think your a power stricken tyrant because of how you treat all the players.
But that's a different story and I'm not here to throw stones.
Now you said about how the mobs/pve can be era accurate because things existed like that in osi. Well that's a reach so if that's your only worry, if your only complaint is the events are in a "trammel" style area, why not just make it possible for people to attack and disrupt the event? Instead of transporting us to a different area, why not make a spot of the world a place for capture the flag n such with the same system you had except for 2 things, players can be looted and players can be attacked/stolen from by players not in the event?
And don't use the grandfathered card, if that's the reason all this nea stuff is here then events shoulda been grandfathered in too because they were here before all of it.