UO Second Age

Teriyl wrote:Anarcho - no one is taking anything out on Kaivan. You and Boomland have both responded that events as they were will not be coming back, however, you didn't speak like and ass hat and so your words are respected.

There is no reason a point can't be made without being a dick.

I'm sorry that you felt that my responses weren't palatable, but my initial response was intended to be a very clear indication of what our answer was, and that clarity necessitated that I point out that other staff members had weighed in on the decision specifically due to comments made by the person I was responding to in this very thread. The fact that the very next response from this person was to complain that we didn't do what they wanted, call out Boomland for intentionally laying out BS and stringing players along, and to complain about how we wasted player time earned the type of response that was given. That behavior can be respectfully tolerated to a point, but we are not machines and we can't and won't be expected to happily go along when that is the continual response that we receive.

Menkaure wrote:Kaivan I don't think your a power stricken tyrant because you don't agree with me, I think your a power stricken tyrant because of how you treat all the players.

Can you please provide some examples? This is a very wide statement.

Let me preface this by saying that you're awesome Kaivan, let the haters hate.

Here's something I've wondered:

There are a couple of mechanisms that exist on the server that I'm aware of, specifically the Help->Stuck feature and moreso the automated mobile cleanup.

The help->stuck feature is not mechanically era accurate, but is put in place to facilitate normal GM functions since GMs can't be around 24/7 to staff and move players who might be stuck. To be clear, I have no problems with this feature.

The automated mobile cleanup feature moves/removes mobs that are stuck in houses or in strange dungeon places after a period of time. This feature is not mechanically accurate, as mobiles on a production server in our target era would exist until killed or cleaned up manually by a GM. I also have no problems with this feature and see the need for it.

In both of these cases, normal GM functions have been programmatically automated to provide better service to the players and better server performance without the need for GMs to be available as frequently as would be necessary otherwise.

To finally get to the question, if GM run events are certainly era accurate why is it OK to programmatically reproduce a GM unstucking folks, a GM cleaning up mobiles, but not a GM running events?

Let's get back on track here landlubbers. CTV (Wharf) and 1v1 non-free use tourney's are the most important, oh and also REMOVING THIS SCHEDULE THAT STARES US IN THE FACE BUT ISN'T A REAL THING!

Weekly Event Schedule
Thursday
5:00am 1v1 non-Free Use Tournament
9:00am Survival Game
Friday
2:00am 1v1 Crafted,Pots&Poisons Tourney
3:30pm Capture the Flag (cave)
Saturday
5:00am Double Domination
5:00am 1v1 Pure Dexer Tourney (non-free-use)
11:30am 1v1 Magic,Pots&Poisons Tourney [non-free-use]
2:00pm CTF (Wharf)
5:00pm 2v2 Non-Free Use Tournament
Sunday
1:00pm 4v4 PvP Tournament
Monday
12:00am 1v1 non-Free Use Tournament
4:00am 1v1 Magic,Pots&Poisons Tourney [non-free-use]
9:30am 2v2 Magics,Pots&Poisons Tourney [non-free-use]
11:30am CTF Game (Urban)
11:00pm 2v2 Non-Free Use Tournament
Tuesday
3:00am 2v2 Magics,Pots&Poisons Tourney [non-free-use]
5:00am CTF Game (Urban)
7:30pm Survival Game
Wednesday
12:30am 1v1 PvP Tournament
3:00am Double Domination
10:30am Capture the Flag (huts)

Kaivan is my favorite.

That is all.

Menkaure wrote:Kaivan I don't think your a power stricken tyrant because you don't agree with me, I think your a power stricken tyrant because of how you treat all the players.

Can you please provide some examples? This is a very wide statement.[/quote]

If you aren't around and don't hold people's hand every once in a while, they hate you. You just happen to have the crappy job of being the Dad who tells the kids they can't go party at midnight. I'm not telling you anything you don't know, though.

Kaivan, I respect the work you do for the server and your position on events...I just read through and didn't like reading how you responded to folks. You struck me as an asshole, if that's you then fine, I'll just know to expect that. If that's not you I hope you feel better today.

When i brought up Boomland and Anarcho I was merely drawing a comparison between the 3 of you and the way in which you all had communicated with the population. You all said exactly the same thing but they didn't have an asshole tone so it doesn't rile folks up.

The entire silver system exists as our approximation of special items for participating in special events similarly to what OSI servers did, and it is not a mechanic. Existing ice white cloth is grandfathered, and the mechanic to produce more cloth has been removed.

To put it as clearly as possible: There is a difference between the item and the mechanic that produced the item. The item itself exists, but the mechanic to produce more of that item no longer exists, which therefore means that we are as mechanically accurate as possible in that area.

I don't buy that. The silver system is a "mechanic". You all hand out silver in various forms....regularly. People have even farmed it recently when creatures dropping it were not properly removed (no creature in era EVER dropped a special coin that could be converted into rare items - thats a mechanic!). Said silver is then turned in to get special items that were unattainable in era. That is a mechanic to me. Silver did not exist in era. A system to gather it and turn it in to a GM did not exist in era. GM's did not convert one thing into super rare otherwise unatainable things in era. In no way shape or form did any of it exist....just like the events system.

So for you to say the silver system as it exists at this moment is "era accurate" - is not accurate.

You have not removed the mechanic by which silver is handed out or gained as it is still being introduced regularly.

So kill the silver system and your above statement will then be true.

PS - while you are at it, introduce item bless deeds. They were introduced via a mechanic in era. Without them, this server is not era accurate. kthxbye.

chad, mrboombastic, mark, hi im mike, marmalade and myself have all started on different servers.

6 vets who played here for years. now why can't we retain/bring them back here? is it the lack or population? competition? lack of social enticement? yes those are all rhetorical questions, however i think they prove a very valid and substantial point concerning this thread. i believe there have been way too many statements previously for me to even put in my two cents, considering my two cents has been provided by facts/opinions over and over.

to put it simply and elementary, bring back the events or keep giving all these players who support the server the cold shoulder simply because you wanna hug the "t2a accuracies" nuts. to me, at this point..it is ignorant. this is a community, a democracy type(at least i think so in a way?). why not lighten up and give it a shot to SOME DEGREE?! to any one with a golf ball sized brain or bigger, it is obvious that the majority+++ want them back. but i don't think anyone is arguing that, along with the point that it could help attract and re attract new players, which this server sorely needs.

So how exactly did ctf work? And why can't it be replicated in the "normal" world?

Elk Eater wrote:To finally get to the question, if GM run events are certainly era accurate why is it OK to programmatically reproduce a GM unstucking folks, a GM cleaning up mobiles, but not a GM running events?

The short answer is that these are issues of practicality for running a free server in the same way that limiting connections is a practicality. Events do not fall under this same category.

Brules wrote:I don't buy that. The silver system is a "mechanic". You all hand out silver in various forms....regularly.

That's fine if you want to disagree with it, but the system isn't a mechanic by any stretch of the imagination. The fact that we sometimes hand out silver for participating in events and assist player run events in the same way doesn't make it a mechanic, because it goes through us and we aren't a mechanic.

Brules wrote:People have even farmed it recently when creatures dropping it were not properly removed

I don't think I should have to explain how an unintentional spawn of creatures that were originally used for a small event is not the same thing as a mechanic.

Brules wrote:(no creature in era EVER dropped a special coin that could be converted into rare items - thats a mechanic!).

You're confusing the fact that we drop a specific item with the fact that creatures did occasionally drop special items as part of an event (e.g. elves on OSI servers, some shard specific quests with specially spawned creatures, etc.). The fact that these things drop is no more a mechanic than the fact that sometimes towns are invaded by creatures that aren't killed by the guards as part of a special event.

Brules wrote:Said silver is then turned in to get special items that were unattainable in era. That is a mechanic to me.

I wasn't aware that interactions with GMs were considered a mechanic. That logic would require us to act exactly like OSI did at all times in all fashions, because hey, we're a mechanic.

Brules wrote:Silver did not exist in era.

You're using the fact that a specific item did not exist in era to justify that we are somehow implementing a mechanic. In that case, no unique items of any kind should exist on any server, because from the standpoint of any individual server, unique items found on other servers did not exist on that server. Or, are you suggesting that we are limited to handing out only the special items that were obtained on OSI servers (which one?)? If that's the case, you miss the point.

Brules wrote:A system to gather it and turn it in to a GM did not exist in era.

The fact that we provide a method for players to acquire rare or unique items is not an issue because it is not a matter of mechanical accuracy. Interacting with us, and acquiring special items through us is not a mechanic.

Brules wrote:GM's did not convert one thing into super rare otherwise unatainable things in era.

Actually they did. See the above link and look for the Sage Humbolt quest. Other such quests and events were also run on OSI servers, so yes certain items were exchanged for other unobtainable items. Although, that doesn't particularly matter because we are approximating the GM interactions with quests that would sometimes yield special items by providing a method to acquire special items. The method does not have to be identical to OSI servers because it isn't a mechanic.

Brules wrote:In no way shape or form did any of it exist....just like the events system.

Again, refer to my above point regarding items that did or didn't exist on OSI servers. There is also a vast difference between the existence of unique items and the event system that you want us to bring back. They are categorically different things.

Brules wrote:So for you to say the silver system as it exists at this moment is "era accurate" - is not accurate.

I said that our silver system was an approximation of GM interactions for acquiring special items, not that it was "era accurate", because it isn't a matter of concern to mechanical accuracy, which is the mandate of the server.

Brules wrote:You have not removed the mechanic by which silver is handed out or gained as it is still being introduced regularly.

I've already said this before, but I'll say it again for clarity. Acquiring silver via special events is not a mechanic.

Brules wrote:PS - while you are at it, introduce item bless deeds. They were introduced via a mechanic in era. Without them, this server is not era accurate. kthxbye.

We will introduce the item at the time and in the method that we deem most appropriate, same as we did with Furniture Dye tubs.

Roden wrote:So how exactly did ctf work? And why can't it be replicated in the "normal" world?

All the old events were on a schedule. At X'oclock, a gate would appear in towns and people could go in. The gate would warp them to a room that is not accessible by any other means. You couldn't steal, attack, or otherwise grief players there.

Next, you signed up to be in the event and when the event started, all signed up players were teleported to another place that is not part of the map, where special rules applied. Reagents and potions were typically free use (no consumption upon usage), when you died you were teleported back to the starting area (or your CTF/Double Dom team's base) - all your loot retained in your backpack.

The flag itself was an automated system in CTF games. That's probably the toughest part to recreate. The flag carrier turned bright neon gold - similar to how a faction player during UOR would turn purple with a sigil.

In short there was a lot of oversights (even outside of the whole far from era accurate) -> Stat loss murderers used events as a way to res without stat loss. People used events as a place to do safe haven trades. People used events to gain skill at no loss to them.

Mammoth and myself have spoken a lot about how to get events into the real world, under better accurate mechanics. This isn't something we can just whip together in a few days and call it done, a lot of considerations need to be made. We'll see what this turns into.

However, other World-activities will still be stirring about as stated in my last response which may have gone unseen by many based on the last ~2 pages of this thread.

Boomland Jenkins wrote:

Roden wrote:So how exactly did ctf work? And why can't it be replicated in the "normal" world?

All the old events were on a schedule. At X'oclock, a gate would appear in towns and people could go in. The gate would warp them to a room that is not accessible by any other means. You couldn't steal, attack, or otherwise grief players there.

Next, you signed up to be in the event and when the event started, all signed up players were teleported to another place that is not part of the map, where special rules applied. Reagents and potions were typically free use (no consumption upon usage), when you died you were teleported back to the starting area (or your CTF/Double Dom team's base) - all your loot retained in your backpack.

The flag itself was an automated system in CTF games. That's probably the toughest part to recreate. The flag carrier turned bright neon gold - similar to how a faction player during UOR would turn purple with a sigil.

In short there was a lot of oversights (even outside of the whole far from era accurate) -> Stat loss murderers used events as a way to res without stat loss. People used events as a place to do safe haven trades. People used events to gain skill at no loss to them.

Mammoth and myself have spoken a lot about how to get events into the real world, under better accurate mechanics. This isn't something we can just whip together in a few days and call it done, a lot of considerations need to be made. We'll see what this turns into.

However, other World-activities will still be stirring about as stated in my last response which may have gone unseen by many based on the last ~2 pages of this thread.

Thanks for clearing that up. Yeah I agree with your other post - the only events I remember on OSI were things like hordes of ogres attacking Vesper which were good fun, seeing more stuff in Britannia naturally would be cool.

Kaivan, you forget the yearly Christmas mechanic when you introduce untold thousands of silver into the economy by a mechanic of matching tickets and selecting a silver trophy prize. THAT is a mechanic.

Silver and rewards never existed in era. They are not accurate. It is as simple as that. You logic fails in continuing to argue why silver and the silver system is legit while events are not. Using your logic, BOTH should be removed, not take one and leave the other.

The way you argue it does not make 1 bit of sense. Neither system existed in era. In era there was no way to gather items to get rares from the staff. Period.

I suspect that you ignored my entire post if you're continuing this line of argument.

I suspect you are ignoring that the silver system is not era accurate.