Rule(s) Reguarding the use of automated pvp macro(s)

[Hiroshi Uchiah]

Wow... Marmalade said something that was very smart..... for real no sarcasm. lol

[KydVicious]

I think that as long as Razor is allowed you're going to see the PvP macros. It would be very hard to police this and losing Razor or limiting it's functions would simply be probitive as too many problems would arise from such implemetation.

IMO the Razor macros and even some suspected third party program use has not unbalanced the gameplay here to the extent that it needs to be made "illegal". Archer bots are for that ambush attack, once you know where they are it's easy to take them out. Also as far as the PvP macros/scripts, etc. people have always tried to gimp this game and always will. I think it just needs to be a case of the community identifying those that do it and just as in the past inform everyone who will listen as to that person's lack of skill and reliance on macros/scripts to compensate for their lack of mouse/hotkey l33t PvP skills.

Eventually everyone will know who is a PvP lamer and treat them with the lack of respect they deserve.

[chumbucket]

I think that as long as Razor is allowed you're going to see the PvP macros. It would be very hard to police this and losing Razor or limiting it's functions would simply be probitive as too many problems would arise from such implemetation.

IMO the Razor macros and even some suspected third party program use has not unbalanced the gameplay here to the extent that it needs to be made "illegal". Archer bots are for that ambush attack, once you know where they are it's easy to take them out. Also as far as the PvP macros/scripts, etc. people have always tried to gimp this game and always will. I think it just needs to be a case of the community identifying those that do it and just as in the past inform everyone who will listen as to that person's lack of skill and reliance on macros/scripts to compensate for their lack of mouse/hotkey l33t PvP skills.

Eventually everyone will know who is a PvP lamer and treat them with the lack of respect they deserve.

And eventually no one will ever shop at Bigoud's again.

[lettuce]

WHY DOES EVERYONE CRY SO MUCH

[marvin]

I think the only other thing that would affect pvp would be gate bots, which work well and many use them. Of course, once party and guild chat are removed that won't be possible (through allowed means)

What exactly is a "gate bot"? An unmanned character precasting Gate and reverse gating another character out when given a command to do so?

Because that is clearly not possible with Razor. People who do that are using EasyUO.

I find it funny how many people on this shard blatantly use EasyUO and get away with it by claiming they are using razor macros... even when razor macros do not provide for that functionality.

This shard would definitely benefit from having a staff member who is more familiar with EUO and razor and their capabilities and differences between them.

[marvin]

Just for an example here is something I saw in the uosecondage IRC:

[14:22:05] <MatrondeWinter> We dont need vent with all the razor bot macros
...
[14:22:19] <MatrondeWinter> I usually log in my 3 characters, and then chumbuckets controller razor macro does the rest

There's just one glaring problem with this: Razor is not capable of doing anything of the sort. It simply is not sophisticated enough and razor macros are useless for anything complex at all. Razor cannot even distinguish between items in your pack and every other item on screen or even invisible items.

I just chcked and razors "sysmessage" reading apparently does not distinguish between actual system messages and regular journal messages, so I suppose getting gated out at a verbal command is technically possible. However creating sophisticated pvp bots is clearly not.

[Hemperor]

WHY DOES EVERYONE CRY SO MUCH

It's hardly crying, although it may be hard to notice the automation of pvp from within your tower walls with your 5 guildmates.

[MatronDeWinter]

Just for an example here is something I saw in the uosecondage IRC:

[14:22:05] <MatrondeWinter> We dont need vent with all the razor bot macros
...
[14:22:19] <MatrondeWinter> I usually log in my 3 characters, and then chumbuckets controller razor macro does the rest
.

Obviously sarcasm.

[RoboSamurai]

I'm definitely not a Matron supporter, I think the person is crass and the playstyle flaccid.

However, that said, I've been killed by the cA archer crew. They're people.

The timing and coordination wasn't as tight as it could be. I could script in razor a setup that insta 3-hits.

Probably tie those three in with another players attacks, as well.

Not saying they don't/can't bot it, but from what I have seen, they're mostly if not fully there controlling.

[tekai]

For the record, you can use razor to do such tasks.

You need to use guild chat, and use system message macros.

When derrick removes guild chat, this will end, and those who use them will have to go back to alt-tabbing.

Don't always assume EUO, and its probably best not to even mention it.

[marvin]

For the record, you can use razor to do such tasks.

You need to use guild chat, and use system message macros.

When derrick removes guild chat, this will end, and those who use them will have to go back to alt-tabbing.

Don't always assume EUO, and its probably best not to even mention it.

No, it is clearly impossible to make a pvp bot that can be controlled using razor.

You wouldn't be able to even perform the most basic of actions, like giving it a character ID to attack.

[MatronDeWinter]

You wouldn't be able to even perform the most basic of actions, like giving it a character ID to attack.

Attack nearest blue/red/ect

[Lord Cavewight of GL]

Not sure if anyone wants my two cents but here it goes:


We can pursue one of two options to deal with archer bots,

Option 1: Limiting client connections to 1 per IP.

Option 2: Banning Automated PvP.

First, What is Automated PvP? My definition of automated PvP(in terms of how it would have been banned on OSI) would be any AFK macro that deals damage non-consensual to another player(player being a different person than yourself). Example, Macroing wrestling on your friend or another client would not be automated PvP.

Option 1: Why should we limit client connections to 1 per IP? I personally dont think we should do this. OSI did not limit client connections per IP, Why should we?

Option 2: Why should we ban automated PvP? On OSI a player would have been banned for this. Just as a player would be banned for any form of afk macroing.

This raises a different question. Why should we ban automated PvP and not afk macroing? To answer this we should look to why this shard doesn't ban people for afk macroing. The staff has made it clear it would be impossible to monitor afk macroing and they do not have the resources to pursue it. The same is not true for automated PvP. Archer bots cannot kill a player without them knowing it has happened. Because of this any player effected by automated PvP can simply page staff about it.


Side note: Much of the archering I have seen lately has been individual archers in the same guild. Being killed by a swarm of archers will always be around regardless of the archerbot situation.

[ClowN]

I think the only other thing that would affect pvp would be gate bots, which work well and many use them. Of course, once party and guild chat are removed that won't be possible (through allowed means)

What exactly is a "gate bot"? An unmanned character precasting Gate and reverse gating another character out when given a command to do so?

Because that is clearly not possible with Razor. People who do that are using EasyUO.

I find it funny how many people on this shard blatantly use EasyUO and get away with it by claiming they are using razor macros... even when razor macros do not provide for that functionality.

This shard would definitely benefit from having a staff member who is more familiar with EUO and razor and their capabilities and differences between them.

actually this is very simple to do in razor. you should learn a little more about razor before throwing accusations out and claiming that the staff is incompetent to its functions.

[corr]]

If sysmsg (gate now)
cast spell gate travel
target predetermined rune

loop

Why would you think its impossible. That's just a three line simplified macro, you could make up something more complex pretty easily to do a variety of runes also.

As far as 'archer bots' go its something like:

dbl click dagger
target closest orange/red whatever
attack last
loop

I know the ones in use might be more complex than that btw (ie code to synch the archers up). I know very little real programming, but from what I've seen you can do amazing things with For, Else, and IF statements, all of which are provided by razor.

If it was possible to somehow turn these off (probably isn't) then a lot of the ridiculous macros wouldn't exist without something like easyuo. UOAssist didn't have these statements, and was therefore far less powerful on OSI servers relative to what we have here.