Lockdowns:

[Ollie]

are you saying that non locked down items would decay in houses?

yea a few houses I have carpet bomb levels of items decorating them.. but you dont really need that many actual lockdowns to do stuff. The aquarium is a pretty funny optical illusion ill take some pics maybe so peopel can see how its built but its suprisingly few items

Thats how it worked after pub 2 yes? And yeah, I more or less am of the opinion that the pub 2 lockdown additions were big enough for MOST storage purposes, but again I need to find someone that hoards items and talk to them about it.

[MatronDeWinter]

lotsofstuff.jpg (121.1 KiB) Viewed 1933 times

Here are two locations where I store items, one is misc magic items, the other is filled with fletched bows that I do plan on selling whenever I find the time. There are almost 10,000 items in that first picture alone.

[BlackFoot]

If we moved further into the housing stages, it really shoudl have been done immediately after the CUB.

[Ollie]

lotsofstuff.jpg

Here are two locations where I store items, one is misc magic items, the other is filled with fletched bows that I do plan on selling whenever I find the time. There are almost 10,000 items in that first picture alone.

A legitimate example, but you do intend on selling them. Why not just sell them sooner?
I think you could store well over a hundred thousand arrows or more and still have plenty of room under the pub 2 lockdown/secure rules.

I definitely understand where you're coming from- but I am not super sure from it that all that storage is absolutely necessary for a vast amount of the population, but of course I am definitely prepared to be wrong about that.

Also, if the max amount of items you can have in a box is 125- you have 13 rows stacked six high in picture number one- thats 1625 items. While its not my business why you want to keep 1625 magic items of varying degree laying around in your house, thats nowhere near ten thousand. Of course I am sure you meant "in the house in the first picture" as opposed to simply the boxes pictured. Currently that keep can store 375 lockdowns and 19 secures. So you could secure every one of those boxes and still have more secures that don't eat up your lockdowns under the CURRENT system- Yes I know 400 stones is the limit, so we'll add the limit up to 19 just to make up for the amount over 400 stones that you have in any of those given boxes.

This means that the current system is more limited by item weight rather than the amount of items you can actually store securely in your home. That was a surprisingly larger amount of storage than I expected!

So lets compare to pub 2-

A keep has 18 secures with no weight limit under pub 2, or 2625 items that can be secured of any weight. That means you could simply lockdown and not bother securing any of the boxes you have pictured and still have a LOT of lockdowns. Again, I think you may have meant in the house completely and not just in the picture- I'll give you that- I don't know the exact Square tileage of a keep, but I'll make a point of walking it out later if I can find one unlocked. This information would be useful because we could see exactly how many items MAX that you could store in a keep if every single tile contained 125 items stacked 6 boxes high- I am sure it is absolutely outrageous how many items this comes out to, but does anyone need even CLOSE to this amount of space? I mean, if you're somehow able to fill a home with that many items then I definitely want to see it in person.

On the flip side-One of the big reasons they patched out storage like that was server performance I believe- not particularly an issue here.

[Faust]

Why is house decay even being discussed here again?

Phase III the patch that introduced house and boat decay did not come in until the removal of pre-casting(past our target date) and will never be a viable option or choice here.

[Ollie]

Why is house decay even being discussed here again?

Phase III the patch that introduced house and boat decay did not come in until the removal of pre-casting(past our target date) and will never be a viable option or choice here.

Hmm. Well that kind of makes my last post pointless- was just refuting a point made on that basis. That makes this discussion a lot less relevant. Thanks faust.

So you could still opt to use large houses as huge random crap stockpiles. Interesting. This means that the only big argument AGAINST phase 2 is house looting, which is still a legitimate talking point.

I doubt you were manipulating information on purpose, but I thought I'd point that out.

[Faust]

The only argument against Phase II housing is the looting issue. There are many people that believe this housing phase was a prequel addition for the UOR publish. However, this could be argued for many of the other instances in the same patch such as kegs, runebooks, and skill locks. I don't think this is a valid argument at all in my honest opinion. We should either be using the pre-Nov 23rd '99 patch wiping everything that exists from the current target date OR keep the current date of Nov 23rd '99 stopping there and implement all the contents from that patch.

[BlackFoot]

skill locks have been adressed a few dozen times and the reason they are left in is a pretty good one.
It should be taken out of the discussion really for now and focus on the others.

[Ollie]

The only argument against Phase II housing is the looting issue. There are many people that believe this housing phase was a prequel addition for the UOR publish. However, this could be argued for many of the other instances in the same patch such as kegs, runebooks, and skill locks. I don't think this is a valid argument at all in my honest opinion. We should either be using the pre-Nov 23rd '99 patch wiping everything that exists from the current target date OR keep the current date of Nov 23rd '99 stopping there and implement all the contents from that patch.

Oddly enough, that is about exactly what I believe in a much shorter way- so basically I am arguing FOR the Nov 23d patch. Without house item decay I don't see what the issue is aside from potential looting targets odd's wise. If the storage issue is truly dire as Matron said, then they could still use the houses as warehouses with the exact same functionality as they have now, except we all wouldn't have to have annoying table barriers just because a few who risk unsecured items using a barrier improperly end up losing items.

[Faust]

Blackfoot,

The server will always be using an inaccurate system if you continue to use Phase One Housing and skill locks. The only way you can maintain a mechanical accurate server is to keep the current cutoff target or opt out for the previous patch. There will be a sacrifice in some form or another no matter what direction is chosen. However, at least you can say 'this is accurate to <insert date>" and discontinue the status quo of arguing in the name of era accuracy while adopting a stance for era inaccuracy.

[BlackFoot]

i thought the reason was that skill locks remain is that they cannot be physically removed, so its not a decision based on accuracy but based on practicality.

[Faust]

Skill locks can't be removed from the client but its functionality can easily be.

Why do you think stat locks are currently sitting on the chopping block?

[BlackFoot]

got the two locks confused

but having the little arrows there, up down locked and not functioning would be real fun to explain to every single player over and over :/
the infinite number of pages and bug posts would be fun

[nightshark]

got the two locks confused

but having the little arrows there, up down locked and not functioning would be real fun to explain to every single player over and over :/
the infinite number of pages and bug posts would be fun

no skill locks actually existed on "rebirth", a pre t2a uogamers shard. it was actually one of the most kickass shards i've ever played and i dont recall any whining over lack of skill locks

[Faust]

Blackfoot,

This was the same concern that Derrick had/has... However, if you can alter the way they function that means you can alter it into just about anything you want... For example, clicking on an arrow can send a system message in the bottom left hand corner that skill/stat locks do not work in the t2a era, etc... This client side issue isn't much different than the current many others that exist such an AOS status bar listing odd/inaccurate instances(luck, damage, fire, poison, energy, etc..), character creation for invalid classes/templates(necros, pallys, ninjas, or elves), bad skills in the skills menu(discordance, necromancy, paladins, bushido, etc...), and the list could go on just about forever... Also, I think it's even possible to have all the skills display a specific gump... for example, the skill could always be pointing up, down, or locked never changing. Having the skills always pointing up not being able to change may help reduce the confusion along with a system message.