War/Peace mode & Attack Last

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Kaivan
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Re: War/Peace mode & Attack Last

Post by Kaivan »

nightshark wrote:OP is right, your opponent hitting "attacklast" should not trigger you to be whacked, if you are currently ineligible for whack. This was fixed a long time ago. But was actually patched back into the game inadvertently.
Rammar wrote:I'm nearly positive this was possible -- the initial victim would eventually get flagged grey to the attacker. The original attacker could even go blue while continuing to pummel them. I think there were also cases you could autodefend (but not retarget) against a blue opponent in town.
You are correct that it was possible for the initial victim to eventually turn grey to the attacker, but not correct that the attacker could "auto defend" and eventually turn blue.

When I use the term "auto defend", I mean that the attacker is actually hitting the victim with a weapon, after being forced back into combat.

The only way it was possible for the victim to eventually turn grey to the attacker, was if the attacker performed no negative actions on the victim for a period of time, yet was continually attacked by the victim in that period.

EG:
I attack 1up (blue) outside of Minoc. We both run into minoc, and 1up keeps chasing me around attacking me, but I never swing at him. If we keep this up for a period of time (not sure how long, most probably 2 minutes), eventually 1up will go grey to me and I can kill him without penalty. Obviously that situation does not exist on UOSA, since 1up re-attacking me is a "criminal action" for me.
Actually, it should never be possible for the victim to go grey to the attacker. On the demo, if player A attacks player B (who is blue) outside of town and both parties walk back into town, if player B continues to auto-attack against player A while player A stands still without fighting back, player A will eventually go blue himself (lose his criminal flag), but the aggressor flag between the two of them will still remain where player B is the aggressor to player A. This aggressor flag prevents player A from ever becoming grey.

The above example is very similar to the one provided earlier involving the horse with the exception of the fact that the person who was initially grey was the aggressor to the person who was blue instead of the reverse. This difference allows for one significant action to take place in this example that isn't available in the other example: player A (the victim) can actively attack player B and cause him to auto-defend. By doing so, if player B strikes player A, player B will become eligible to be guard whacked as soon as that happens.
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Derrick
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Re: War/Peace mode & Attack Last

Post by Derrick »

As above, this should be remedied on test center. Testing would be appreciated.

There was a crash bug on test related to this earlier, but that has been fixed.
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Re: War/Peace mode & Attack Last

Post by Roser »

Dear Kaivan,

Your a smartypants. <--- lol no spell check on that word

I agree. I shall go test this!
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Re: War/Peace mode & Attack Last

Post by Derrick »

Thanks a ton for testing, I'd like to launch this asap.
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Re: War/Peace mode & Attack Last

Post by nightshark »

Kaivan wrote:Actually, it should never be possible for the victim to go grey to the attacker. On the demo, if player A attacks player B (who is blue) outside of town and both parties walk back into town, if player B continues to auto-attack against player A while player A stands still without fighting back, player A will eventually go blue himself (lose his criminal flag), but the aggressor flag between the two of them will still remain where player B is the aggressor to player A. This aggressor flag prevents player A from ever becoming grey.
this is basically what i was saying except the term "aggressor" was replaced by "is grey to"
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Re: War/Peace mode & Attack Last

Post by Joueur Moyen »

Derrick wrote:As above, this should be remedied on test center. Testing would be appreciated.

There was a crash bug on test related to this earlier, but that has been fixed.
Not sure it's working as intended.

I had two chars, one (Player A) that attacked the other (Player B) outside of guards.

Then I had A run next to B and cause B to autodefend.

Then A followed B into guards and continued to fight by standing next to B. (A with wrestle, B with a staff)

B would autodefend and A would wrestle so I ran A off a bit and tab-tabbed, then ran back next to B, where they both continued fighting.

I ran A off again and tab-tabbed, waited about 10 seconds or so, tab-tabbed again and then ran back next to B.

A just stood there and B autodefended. Then out of the blue the guards came and MURDERED POOR A!! (A wasn't fighting at the time, but had not yet turned blue.)

This was a good three minutes, or more, after the initial attack, that A got guard whacked.

I'll try again in a bit, I have to run and do something.

Edit: this was on Test Center.

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Re: War/Peace mode & Attack Last

Post by Derrick »

Joueur Moyen wrote:A just stood there and B autodefended. Then out of the blue the guards came and MURDERED POOR A!! (A wasn't fighting at the time, but had not yet turned blue.)
A will never turn blue to B as long as there is still combat going on, even if he is not swinging himself. I think what happened here is A autodefended when damage was done to him, and in turn began swinging at B again; when damage was done is became a new crime and the guards were called by an NPC in the vicinity.

This is at least consistent with the way it should work. Let me know if this could have been the sequence of events.
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Re: War/Peace mode & Attack Last

Post by Joueur Moyen »

Derrick wrote:
Joueur Moyen wrote:A just stood there and B autodefended. Then out of the blue the guards came and MURDERED POOR A!! (A wasn't fighting at the time, but had not yet turned blue.)
A will never turn blue to B as long as there is still combat going on, even if he is not swinging himself. I think what happened here is A autodefended when damage was done to him, and in turn began swinging at B again; when damage was done is became a new crime and the guards were called by an NPC in the vicinity.

This is at least consistent with the way it should work. Let me know if this could have been the sequence of events.
Yeah, that's what's happening. In my second test, everytime A (attacker) autodefends, I get the "guards can be called on you" message, after I get the "guards can no longer be called on you" message after having not autodefended for the necessary duration to time out the guards.

I'm going to try to time out the criminal flag without timing out the aggressor flag and see what happens.

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Re: War/Peace mode & Attack Last

Post by bismuth »

nightshark wrote:I attack 1up (blue) outside of Minoc. We both run into minoc, and 1up keeps chasing me around attacking me, but I never swing at him. If we keep this up for a period of time (not sure how long, most probably 2 minutes), eventually 1up will go grey to me and I can kill him without penalty.
This is completely incorrect. It never was like that on OSI, ever.

When you attack a blue, he will always stay blue. You are the attacker. He can defend himself all he wants he isn't suddenly going to become the aggressor, you are the aggressor.

The only possible way for him to turn grey for attacking you is if you hide or leave the area until the aggressor flag runs out. Then of course you would return to blue, and him attacking you would be a criminal act and get him guardwhacked.
Derrick wrote:when damage was done is became a new crime and the guards were called by an NPC in the vicinity.
Is it verified from the demo code that damage has to be done? I was always under the impression that it was the swing that did it.

I'm probably mistaken, but was wondering.

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Re: War/Peace mode & Attack Last

Post by Joueur Moyen »

Kaivan wrote: Actually, it should never be possible for the victim to go grey to the attacker. On the demo, if player A attacks player B (who is blue) outside of town and both parties walk back into town, if player B continues to auto-attack against player A while player A stands still without fighting back, player A will eventually go blue himself (lose his criminal flag), but the aggressor flag between the two of them will still remain where player B is the aggressor to player A. This aggressor flag prevents player A from ever becoming grey.
This is the part I'm having a hard time duplicating on test. Player A (attacker) doesn't just stand still, even after tabbing out of combat. As long as Player B (victim) keeps autodefending, Player A will autodefend and keep getting the "guards can be called on you" message.

For melee, if A successfully tabs out of combat and neither A or B run next to each other (maybe only when causing damage?), then A will no longer be the aggressor even if still criminal, meaning once A's avatar is no longer highlighted gray to B, then B cannot run next to A and cause A to autodefend. (Sometimes tabbing out of combat by A doesn't seem to work, because my A char will turn and face B, even though they are half a screen apart, and the A avatar stays highlighted gray to B, but once A tabs out successfully, then the A avatar is no longer highlighted. In the case where A turns to face B, which I assume is A trying to autodefend from a distance, there is certainly no damage being done by B, which might be why the second tab out of combat is successful?)

I have to try it with range weapons and magery, but it seems in melee that as long as B keeps autodefending, A won't just stand there, even after tabbing out of combat.

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Re: War/Peace mode & Attack Last

Post by Derrick »

bismuth wrote:
Derrick wrote:when damage was done is became a new crime and the guards were called by an NPC in the vicinity.
Is it verified from the demo code that damage has to be done? I was always under the impression that it was the swing that did it.

I'm probably mistaken, but was wondering.
Yes, this was part of Kaivan findings in testing in the demo, it's not the swing that makes you eligible for a renewal of the guards timer, it's damage or attack (double click)
Joueur Moyen wrote:because my A char will turn and face B, even though they are half a screen apart, and the A avatar stays highlighted gray to B, but once A tabs out successfully, then the A avatar is no longer highlighted. In the case where A turns to face B, which I assume is A trying to autodefend from a distance, there is certainly no damage being done by B, which might be why the second tab out of combat is successful?)

I have to try it with range weapons and magery, but it seems in melee that as long as B keeps autodefending, A won't just stand there, even after tabbing out of combat.
Yeah, this is a really weird thing and I spent some time back along to determine to cause of this. I found that it's actually the client that is turning your character, it's nothing on the server. I doesn't seem to be related to being in war mode. I never tested to see if turning off the "new combat system" in the client stopped this behavior.
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Re: War/Peace mode & Attack Last

Post by Joueur Moyen »

Derrick, maybe. I just checked and I don't have "Disable New Targeting System" checked in the options. I don't even know what it does or what the new targeting system is, lol.

I can try it again later with that checked and see if it makes a difference with the turning character.

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Re: War/Peace mode & Attack Last

Post by Derrick »

Joueur Moyen wrote:I can try it again later with that checked and see if it makes a difference with the turning character.
Thanks for testing. Either way on that turning, it's done by the client. I'm not sure what conditions cause that, maybe last combatant.

I haven't heard of any serious problems with the town guard changes. i think we're ready to publish this fix.
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Re: War/Peace mode & Attack Last

Post by nightshark »

bismuth wrote:
nightshark wrote:I attack 1up (blue) outside of Minoc. We both run into minoc, and 1up keeps chasing me around attacking me, but I never swing at him. If we keep this up for a period of time (not sure how long, most probably 2 minutes), eventually 1up will go grey to me and I can kill him without penalty.
This is completely incorrect. It never was like that on OSI, ever.

When you attack a blue, he will always stay blue. You are the attacker. He can defend himself all he wants he isn't suddenly going to become the aggressor, you are the aggressor.

The only possible way for him to turn grey for attacking you is if you hide or leave the area until the aggressor flag runs out. Then of course you would return to blue, and him attacking you would be a criminal act and get him guardwhacked.
No actually I was referring to "grey to me", meaning he basically gets an aggressor flag and neither are criminal... it's accurate and Kaivan confirmed it is on the demo (using better wording) one post after mine :/
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Re: War/Peace mode & Attack Last

Post by bismuth »

nightshark wrote:No actually I was referring to "grey to me", meaning he basically gets an aggressor flag and neither are criminal... it's accurate and Kaivan confirmed it is on the demo (using better wording) one post after mine :/
What?! No he didn't. He completely contradicted what you said.
Kaivan wrote:Actually, it should never be possible for the victim to go grey to the attacker.
It's really quite bizarre that you even came up with this idea in the first place.

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