Ghosting. Multiple accounts. Crutch for bad pks?

[a troll]

KGB was a moron guild, full of red-townies that would gather a group of dexers in town and lead them outside where they could dragon-gank them and use the 5 or 6 blues in their group that were too scared to go red to cross heal the only tamer they had, while the rest spammed paralyse and energy field.

It's pretty much a no-brainer that a guild sucks when they're consistently going up against roleplaying groups like the orcs, when they're making damn sure sure that they've outnumbering these orcs even before they've unstabled their wyrms, and when they still manage to get mopped by guys in crappy ringmail who won't macro their skills or use horses.

Oh yeah, and getting wiped by random champion spawns at the start of Age of Shadows. Fun times.

Even the guys in that guild who were supposed to be "good" sucked. I've watched Darth/Yoda die so many times to some random orc on the ground with a short spear or a short bow that it's not even funny. I don't know if you were around when Darth got killed by Girm'luhk who was using only a freaking wand, but that was seriously too much. That, in part with their continual crying in mIRC led to the "KGB drinking game" that developed on the Battle Vortex forums.

I might still have the text from that drinking game somewhere.

I wonder why it is that Brit seems to be the major city in most places, but on Siege, it was all about Moonglow.

Moonglow has the easiest access to the moongate, something that's important on a shard with no recall. There were also a lot of early 'Moonglow guilds' from other shards that signed-up for Siege ([Q^Q]) that built it up pretty fast.

[tekai]

I'm sorry if you don't believe I multi cliented, but I do, have and always will. I have 3 computers infront of me, in a triangle.

I'm many years older then you might think, and I'm in a DINK relationship (duel income no kids). In 1997 I had a job, and not a bad one at that. Ford has gone to hell which has brought hard times, but I still own and maintain 3 WOW accounts that me and my wife use.

I knew many multi-boxers, when you are one you find there are many more then you think. think of it as a club.

I'm better at UO then you might think, Its been acouple years and my combat is still rusty, but Ive won my fair share of fights in the week that my charecter has been finished.

As for my guide, its still a work in progress, and my grammer isn't that bad. You can read it and not die. the content of said guide is valad, usefull information to a person who has never ever played UO before.

I play the game as it is meant to be played. I'm a griefer, a houselooter, and a very good farmer. I will bring a lot to this shard, and very soon a few new members.

Don't be upset if you see Feeble Oldman dead in an dungeon near you.

Tekai
O'lmanRiver

[Kraarug]

Douchebags can line up here and tell their glory days of running multiple UO accounts in 99, but sorry, bullshit. Just cause 3 nerds were doing it doesn't make it a phenomenom. The vast majority of people were running 1 account at one time. If ghosting happened at all it was unbelievably rare so stop showing up here pretending it wasn't.

The extent of your ignorance and arrogance is nearly amazing.

Getting personal because someone disagrees with you is immature.

In 1999 me and my RL UO friends, who apparently discovered some grand secrete to running 2 UO accounts on the same computer, were certainly not nerds or douchebags. We were all part of a Special Operations Capable (SOC) unit of the Marine Corps called CBIRF. From jump school to live nerve agent training, we were all highly trained and physically conditioned.

So, why don’t you keep your speculations and conjecture to yourself and stick to the argument and bring facts, state valid opinions or just stfu. Your insults land on those that share the same opinion that you seem to, that Ghosting is lame and shouldn't be allowed.


_________________________________________________________________________________


Now, on topic, the argument that ghosting was possible and maybe practiced in era does not mean it was tolerated then or should be tolerated now.

OSI fixed player tactics that reduced risk to players and affected game play by manipulating the game mechanics. Example? Removing insta-logout within 2 minutes of combat.

Many times, if you actually played O/C in 1999, weak O/C players would run to an Inn and log out as a tactic to avoid death blows. That caused a lot of fights right there in the INNs and became rather lame.

Because of the social trend drop down to the 'lowest common denominator', this tactic grew in popularity until OSI changed the insta-logout mechanism.

Ghosting is not much different. People using their ability to have multiple accounts logged on at one time and planting a risk free site and situation recon character to farm players in dungeons is just weak and lame at best and an abuse of game play and shard rules at worse. In any case, it should be corrected.

[Kraarug]

You will find many members will pull memories out of their ass here... I'm sure the percent of people multiclienting on OSI back then was 1% or less

It wasn't that uncommon. I still have old backup copies of a few 'unsupported third party' UO programs, including multi-clienting applications. Multi-clienting is irrelivent considering nothing was stoping people from doing it on their 'sole account' and just ICQ'in or IRC'in their guild in. It was more of a problem then anyway, considering there was 400% more people, connections/computers were slower, and VOIP programms were just comming around and were horribly laggy (remember roger wilco?).

Good point about the sole account and IQC and hell yeah, I remember Rodger Wilco! I still have a copy of that too.

Douchebags can line up here and tell their glory days of running multiple UO accounts in 99, but sorry, bullshit. Just cause 3 nerds were doing it doesn't make it a phenomenom. The vast majority of people were running 1 account at one time. If ghosting happened at all it was unbelievably rare so stop showing up here pretending it wasn't.

If you want to arugue with emotions: quit being a pussy. Its a pussy tactic, invented by pussies for pussies. If you die because a bunch of lame fucks use a dummy account to "ghost" around then obviously you are too fucking stupid to adapt or use your recall button when the shit hits the fan. Go ahead and call bullshit, obviously you missed out and feel compelled to reflect your own experince on everyone else's.

Yeah, I've adapted and haven't been dropped yet but the issue still stands that this tactic virtually denies normal game play users access to camped dungeons.

[Senses]

Calling someone both ignorant and arrogant, is both ignorant and arrogant. See, I can do it too?

[Kraarug]

Calling someone both ignorant and arrogant, is both ignorant and arrogant. See, I can do it too?

Ahhh, but you provide ample proof. I was just making an obvious observation and comment.

[Creager]

I don’t want to see this server loose sight of its mission:

"We do not intend to ever change any aspect of normal game play to particularly favor any play style or to protect or further expose any players to to the in-game risk that was a large part of this era.”

Any change would directly conflict this ideal.

I agree this tactic is cowardly and could possibly affect normal game-play. But then again, what is normal game-play? UO is UO for very reasons like this; it entails a much greater level of freedom that other games wouldn’t dare to achieve.

Divinity chose to deal with this in a certain manner, which was an effective solution to the issue. However, I always felt that the change was another hit on the 'feel' of t2a. It made divinity just that much more of a bastardized, visionary version of UO: and that much less like OSI.

I think issues like this UOSA should choose to avoid and continue to carry out their ideal of a "close as possible" replica of T2A.

[Senses]

This argument has gone back and forth, but lets melt it down to its simplest.

Me: Multiboxing was not very common in t2a, and definitely not as common as it is in UOSA. I hold this as true.

Cortez: I multiboxed. I knew some people who multiboxed. You hold that as true.

Both of these statements can be true at the same time, so technically, we aren't even really arguing.

There is a reality that is being avoided though, and thats that most of the people with opinions on the subject aren't really the ones affected. Its the newer people that suffer from it and simply log off and never come back. Whether or not something happened in 97, if it happens 2000x more here, it is era inaccurate.

[Kraarug]

This argument has gone back and forth, but lets melt it down to its simplest.

Me: Multiboxing was not very common in t2a, and definitely not as common as it is in UOSA. I hold this as true.

Cortez: I multiboxed. I knew some people who multiboxed. You hold that as true.

There is a reality that is being avoided though, and thats that most of the people with opinions on the subject aren't really the ones affected. Its the newer people that suffer from it and simply log off and never come back. Whether or not something happened in 97, if it happens 2000x more here, it is era inaccurate.

Completely agreed. I hope Derrick does something about it.

[Derrick]

The proposed solution, while fixing a perceived problem has gameplay consequences far beyond what it's trying to solve.

Even disregarding the accuracy argument, I really do feel that this change effects gameplay far beyond the targeted problem.

I'm in agreement that ghost camping of hotspots is game altering from a play perspective, but we will not alter known game mechanics to accommodate gameplay, short of it being game-breaking, and that's not really indicated here.

I'm not at all trying to close the door on this discussion, it's a valid problem, but maybe a better solution can be found?

[Senses]

Well, lets say this. Currently, if I set up a miner to macro mine unattended on a boat, there is a very big chance that you are going to appear at some point and ask me a couple questions. If I don't answer and start mining again, you throw me in jail. How is this much different?

If a ghost is seen or reported in a PvM hotspot, you pop in, ask if they need a gate back to town. If its the same ghost a couple times you use your judgment and send them to jail and threaten to ban the account. This is not a system error, in that we have to change code to fix the system. This is a player mentality that can be changed with a rolled up newspaper and a pile of poop.

[MustardCat]

An idea for a solution:

Any ghosts who spend more than 5-10 minutes in a dungeon are automatically ejected to the entrance. If you want to take it a bit further: If you log out in a dungeon as a ghost you are ejected on login. (Like houses.)

This works out pretty good since the only reason for a ghost to hang around inside a dungeon that long is if they are doing this, or they are a newbie and completely lost. (In which case it will help them get out.)

[Creager]

Well, lets say this. Currently, if I set up a miner to macro mine unattended on a boat, there is a very big chance that you are going to appear at some point and ask me a couple questions. If I don't answer and start mining again, you throw me in jail. How is this much different?

If a ghost is seen or reported in a PvM hotspot, you pop in, ask if they need a gate back to town. If its the same ghost a couple times you use your judgment and send them to jail and threaten to ban the account. This is not a system error, in that we have to change code to fix the system. This is a player mentality that can be changed with a rolled up newspaper and a pile of poop.

I agree with senses here, to take this further i might suggest derrick hire a few extra staff members to watch for issues such as this and people unattended resource gathering.

[malice-tg]

I ghosted spawns during era on osi. no programs needed i use two computers.

if you were deep in stat loss you would want to know certain places were safe before you went.

most pks sent in blues to scout before they came. its the same thing just not as effective.

T2A osi had an effective counter measure to this tactic which is still available on uosecondage. anti-pks. get some people together and fight back.

if you kill them they cant kill you

nothing needs to be changed. if you want help killing ace and or pks just say something in irc an youd be surprised how fast help arrives.

[MatronDeWinter]

Agree with Malice,

People did this, but not on the same frequency that they do here. At least on OSI there was a chance that if a red showed up at a place with many blues, everyone would attack him. Here it's more likely that they help heal him, or are him as well.