If you see new players...

[ThatTelamon]

Take advice from dishonest cheaters whenever you can.

EDIT:

To address the point(s) though, removing the "mentality" from the playerbase isn't the solution, and isn't what Telamon did to improve retention, adding a counselor system did. They are two separate things. It's the duty of a good UO:SA player to murder, steal and pillage whenever possible. Leave handholding to counselors (which I agree we should have).

Players understand the ingame world for the most part, its the verbal abuse and being told to "get good or gtfo my server" that can be a cancer to the playerbase. The "mentality" I am referencing is the expectation that some other person will put the time in to help, educate and assist a player only so you can have a victim to, as you put it, "murder, steal and pillage whenever possible". But if you can impress upon the playerbase the need to "keep it classy" as we put it players will endure the looting, the killing, the stealing and continue to enjoy the risk based world.

Simply put, if a murderer takes the time to educate players on only leaving town with items they don't mind losing, tips on banking often, not carrying runebooks, having a backup mage around for ghost rescues. Then you could infer that said murderer might find more players visting dungeons in the future.

Alternatively if you kill someone, teabag their corpse, kill their horse and place all their items on the horse corpse so they decay quicker you are doing your best to make sure that player doesn't bother to visit that spot anytime soon.

The same goes for thieves, looters, and any other behavior that is inherent in the Felucca world.

If the "mentality" is that you will only welcome players who start with knowledge of a game from 1999, then the population will only continue to wane. 40-50% of the players that sign up "over there" have zero experience with either the T2A/UOR era's and we do everything we can to teach them how awesome classic servers, like UOSA, can be once you learn the ropes.

With the mentality I am seeing from a few of the posters here I can only imagine these players would look to play elsewhere versus learning about your world. These same posters should keep in mind that not only is that opinion negative to new players, it can be negative to the players working to help people learn the server as well. Why bother helping new players if player ________ is just going to go out of their way to make them quit.

Anyway that was just my 2 cents, take it or leave it. UOSA is one of the best servers out there, and everyone who plays here should work to show your new players that. The fact that this is coming from a "dishonest cheater" as you put it and not from the bulk of the posters in this thread should be enlightening.

[Roser]

Ahh yes, this reminds me of the old adage "Don't shit where you eat".

[Elk Eater]

The general mentality isn't that a player needs to start with a full understanding of the game mechanics, it's that they should have a personality that can cope positively with difficult and adversarial situations without crying for change or quitting. Those sorts of players in era lead to trammel and modern mmo rulesets.

I'm not implying that those sort of players would be able to effect such change here, but that they wouldn't enjoy playing here to begin with and it is therefore better for them to learn that earlier rather than later.

Also, stop assuming and projecting about a playerbase you know little to nothing about, that you see only through your admittedly limited forum attendance. If you really cared about this server you wouldn't have cheated and got banned in the first place.

[bigbob]

this thread did inspire me to play more. thanks.

welcome to the server mercer.

[vintirex]

im going to dry loot everyone.

[ThatTelamon]

The general mentality isn't that a player needs to start with a full understanding of the game mechanics, it's that they should have a personality that can cope positively with difficult and adversarial situations without crying for change or quitting. Those sorts of players in era lead to trammel and modern mmo rulesets.

I'm not implying that those sort of players would be able to effect such change here, but that they wouldn't enjoy playing here to begin with and it is therefore better for them to learn that earlier rather than later.

3+ years later and you guys still cannot let that go... Of course I am still waiting to find out what I did wrong but that is irrelevant and unrelated to this topic.

I continue to wish UOSA well and took the time to stop by and offer some advice from my own perspective as a successful shard administrator. I hope you guys do well, and see that there is another way. Erik should be applauded for his efforts and more players should take the time to help him.

Also, stop assuming and projecting about a playerbase you know little to nothing about, that you see only through your admittedly limited forum attendance. If you really cared about this server you wouldn't have cheated and got banned in the first place.

Where exactly do you think these players eventually end up Elk Eater......

[Kaivan]

A couple of quick things to say here.

First, I'm going to state a couple of things publicly regarding Telamon's posts, given the somewhat public nature of his departure. Specifically, I'm going to let the posts that Telamon has made stay for the moment, as the content of the posts isn't a form of advertising, but some constructive criticism. However, I would encourage anyone who receives any PMs that can be construed as a form of advertisement to please report the PMs using the report function within your PM inbox. This isn't an insinuation that you're (Telamon) doing or going to do these sorts of things, merely a relevant reminder on the subject, given your history. 3 years is plenty of time to change your opinions and behaviors, and I'm more than willing to leave those things behind as much as possible, but your previous actions and departure do require a response now.

Second, regarding the subject of this thread, I've said in the past that the resulting UOSA world is largely dependent on the actions and mentalities of those that regularly play within it. If players desire a world where only the most hardcore of players who are willing to be PKed on sight at virtually any time (house kills, regular PKing, whatever), house looted, or stolen from starting from the very moment that their first character lands in this world, then that is your prerogative to do so. However, it is important to recognize that UO, in general, isn't designed as a world where only those attitudes can prevail, and if those attitudes become the only valid ones, it becomes exceedingly likely that anyone who doesn't follow that narrow definition of what UO is like will simply leave. UO, and by extension UOSA, is at its best when a multitude of play styles (PK, anti-PK, PvMer, RPer, Thief, Newbie, whatever) can come and find enjoyment within the rule set that creates tension between those styles, and a large portion of the acceptance of multiple play styles lies in the broad mentality of the server. Now, this isn't an endorsement of the original OP, nor is it a condemnation or endorsement of any of the responses in this thread, but a broader statement that the players as a whole have a great effect on the overall tone of the server via their perceptions of what things should be like.

Anyway, food for thought. Take it for what you will.

[ThatTelamon]

Very well put Kaivan, That was the point I was trying to make. If anything I posted was out of line please remove it at your leisure.

[Malaikat]

Our culture outside of UO has changed pretty drastically in the past fifteen years. My point in this thread has been all along that, as opposed to the youth of my generation, fewer children of today can manage the Fel ruleset. I side with Elk that it's better for everyone that those who can't cope are identified quickly. No amount of aide or consolation is going to alter their fragile state, and, without completely changing the spirit of this shard, they'll never find a way to enjoy their experience here. They'll continually gripe, be completely dependent, and/or leave in a fit of rage eventually.

Im not advocating that we, as a community, should withhold aide or information. I routinely offer advice regarding start-up, gameplay, and advanced mechanics. Ironically, I tell most newbies to start with a scribe and share an extremely simple inscription macro...

Ahem

Anyhow, the fact remains that we aren't prepared to change the rules to accommodate and most people today aren't prepared to accept the unaccommodating playatyles. There more a culture rift now than there was when UO revolutionized the MMO genre. It's the exact reason that OSI changes its model and few MMO games have gone full sandbox since. Change with the times...

[Elk Eater]

Where exactly do you think these players eventually end up Elk Eater......

Wow, dumb AND classless remark, surprise! "My sample of your population consists primarily of people who don't like playing there, or got banned." Genius. To answer the question I hope they go wherever they like playing.

[Taboo]

A couple of quick things to say here.

First, I'm going to state a couple of things publicly regarding Telamon's posts, given the somewhat public nature of his departure. Specifically, I'm going to let the posts that Telamon has made stay for the moment, as the content of the posts isn't a form of advertising, but some constructive criticism. However, I would encourage anyone who receives any PMs that can be construed as a form of advertisement to please report the PMs using the report function within your PM inbox. This isn't an insinuation that you're (Telamon) doing or going to do these sorts of things, merely a relevant reminder on the subject, given your history. 3 years is plenty of time to change your opinions and behaviors, and I'm more than willing to leave those things behind as much as possible, but your previous actions and departure do require a response now.

Second, regarding the subject of this thread, I've said in the past that the resulting UOSA world is largely dependent on the actions and mentalities of those that regularly play within it. If players desire a world where only the most hardcore of players who are willing to be PKed on sight at virtually any time (house kills, regular PKing, whatever), house looted, or stolen from starting from the very moment that their first character lands in this world, then that is your prerogative to do so. However, it is important to recognize that UO, in general, isn't designed as a world where only those attitudes can prevail, and if those attitudes become the only valid ones, it becomes exceedingly likely that anyone who doesn't follow that narrow definition of what UO is like will simply leave. UO, and by extension UOSA, is at its best when a multitude of play styles (PK, anti-PK, PvMer, RPer, Thief, Newbie, whatever) can come and find enjoyment within the rule set that creates tension between those styles, and a large portion of the acceptance of multiple play styles lies in the broad mentality of the server. Now, this isn't an endorsement of the original OP, nor is it a condemnation or endorsement of any of the responses in this thread, but a broader statement that the players as a whole have a great effect on the overall tone of the server via their perceptions of what things should be like.

Anyway, food for thought. Take it for what you will.

Kaivan, its just very obvious UOSA has become a haven of certain personalities. Also, Malakait seems to constantly be whining about wanting to embrace and condemn some sort of abstract ideology that has nothing to do with UOSA.

UOSA, regardless of playstyle, has boiled down to jerks being jerks to each other.

This is due to the inadequacies of blocking features OUTSIDE of UO. It has become an environment of ill say whatever i want and whenever I want with no consequences. Blocking features are a natural balancing tool. Say whatever you want, whenever you want, and no one will have to deal with you for long. The way it is now is steady harassment by players who crave the negative attention because they lack some personality traits to get attention any other way.

Its a video game and people really don't care about dealing with this. They just move on.

Its at least part of the low population problem.

Also Telamon\Schmelamon, who cares? Hes a banned vet. While we are talking with vets, why not ask Fruit Loops or Choppa their opinion on the subject?

They don't know how it is now and its almost derailing to some of the important points that continue to come to the light.

[Elk Eater]

This thread should just redirect here or moved to TT if there is any concern for it being actually productive:

viewtopic.php?f=150&t=62564

[Galendae]

Im not advocating that we, as a community, should withhold aide or information. I routinely offer advice regarding start-up, gameplay, and advanced mechanics. Ironically, I tell most newbies to start with a scribe and share an extremely simple inscription macro...

Ahem

Malaikat, Best back handed compliment ever. At times your subtlety is a work of art.

Telamon is no dummy, he does not care about this shard. Although he has Kaivan fooled apparently. Grow a pair Kaivan and kill that chart, which was no more than, "look at us we are growing" and you suck. Don't be a sucker. You guys let Telamon walk all over you for years and now you are again.

Galendae

[Gork]

[Syphilis_Jack]

One can see on the population graph that this shard's better days are far behind. Wonder why that is? Could it be that many new players here are pk'd nearly 30 seconds into the game, in town nonetheless? Or maybe it's the big dogs who have made their millions of gold via exploits and bugs? Sometimes I log in just to see who is still around, and when I see a new person I refer them elsewhere for the sole fact that this shard is pretty unwelcoming to newbs and I hate to see someone make the same mistakes I have in the past of joining shards on their last leg with a rapidly dwindling population. Why bust your ass on this shard when there is zero economy outside of the same vets haggling over snot green hued sandals and other garbage. I finally got tired of seeing too many decent players leave this place.

Perhaps a shard wipe would work, but then again you've got the same playerbase that can get away with grief tactics that would never fly under another a certain other shard's watch. Just keep doing what you guys are doing, and kiss your population goodbye.