The Definition of Unattended Resource Gathering

[noxmonk]

I think shard growth and stability for the long run, if the long run is truely what the shard is about, are very important. A shard cannot survive off PvP alone, because if you want 1000 people on at prime times, even in that small group you're talking about crafters, gatherers, rare whores, and vendors. Keeping a stable shard economy does nothing but help the shard in every possible way.

Having a shitty economy or one where, if you aren't like vlast using EUO to rail mine, makes it nearly impossible to compete in any form. I'd like to see heavier moderation on AFK mining, I don't think it's unreasonable to check up on players, ask them to go into the ingame chat and talk for a minute to prove they're not AFK or are alt tabbed to another screen.

Personally I think a 2minute response time is more than enough for someone who's not unattended resource gathering. Anything more than 10 minutes without a respons or page when they return and see themselves in jail, would be grounds for a suspension.

With a shard of 500, one person afk'ing up 300,000 ingots can tank an economy easily. This isn't OSI with 10,000 people and 500 gathering all over the map to create less availability. It's 500 where 1 can gather insane amounts and just forget it.

Limiting accounts, connected clients as well could help new people and crafters. The ability to afk all your resources and have every conceivable skill in game is detrimental to maintaining a stable economy as well.


Influx of gold and ease of obtaining through PvM is also kind of curious. I haven't experienced everything the shard has to offer yet, but I can already see how unstable and volatile the economy is. I'm al for era accuracy but maybe some things need to be slowed down or looked at for the good of the shard.

[RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR]

Give it a few years and we'll be as bad as UO Hybrid.

[cletus]

I think shard growth and stability for the long run, if the long run is truely what the shard is about, are very important. A shard cannot survive off PvP alone, because if you want 1000 people on at prime times, even in that small group you're talking about crafters, gatherers, rare whores, and vendors. Keeping a stable shard economy does nothing but help the shard in every possible way.

Having a shitty economy or one where, if you aren't like vlast using EUO to rail mine, makes it nearly impossible to compete in any form. I'd like to see heavier moderation on AFK mining, I don't think it's unreasonable to check up on players, ask them to go into the ingame chat and talk for a minute to prove they're not AFK or are alt tabbed to another screen.

Personally I think a 2minute response time is more than enough for someone who's not unattended resource gathering. Anything more than 10 minutes without a respons or page when they return and see themselves in jail, would be grounds for a suspension.

With a shard of 500, one person afk'ing up 300,000 ingots can tank an economy easily. This isn't OSI with 10,000 people and 500 gathering all over the map to create less availability. It's 500 where 1 can gather insane amounts and just forget it.

Limiting accounts, connected clients as well could help new people and crafters. The ability to afk all your resources and have every conceivable skill in game is detrimental to maintaining a stable economy as well.


Influx of gold and ease of obtaining through PvM is also kind of curious. I haven't experienced everything the shard has to offer yet, but I can already see how unstable and volatile the economy is. I'm al for era accuracy but maybe some things need to be slowed down or looked at for the good of the shard.

For the record, vlast uses a strictly razor macro. Most people don't understand how powerful of a tool razor is when used correctly. I would however, suggest lowering gold yields across the board for PvM but that is mostly a personal pet peeve.

Stable economy in UO is kind of a mythical unicorn of an idea. There are always going to be people abusing some part of the system for gold. I mean Metropolis lasted forever on what many people considered an inflated economy. Of course, I actually went after afk macroers so maybe it lessened the effects. I guess my point is that UO economies are inherently flawed because if it isn't afk/barely attended mining it will be a dungeon run for a tamer or bard to net 100k in an hour. COOL NOW YOU HAVE ENOUGH MONEY FOR TWO SMALL HOUSES! It's just an impossible expectation to have one part of the economy be affected by oversupply when the PvM part contributes far more to inflation than any mining operation as it has a equilibrium effect to a certain extent by lowering ingot prices while PvMing is just a constant stream, no, a constant deluge of gold.

[cletus]

Give it a few years and we'll be as bad as UO Hybrid.

The larger in population and laxer the enforcement of rules a shard becomes the more likely they are to trend towards hyperinflation that is fairly obvious on Hybrid.

Of course, NOTHING is enforced on those shards, haha.

However, most shards wouldn't mind "giving it a few years" as most don't last that long

[RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR]

I think shard growth and stability for the long run, if the long run is truely what the shard is about, are very important. A shard cannot survive off PvP alone, because if you want 1000 people on at prime times, even in that small group you're talking about crafters, gatherers, rare whores, and vendors. Keeping a stable shard economy does nothing but help the shard in every possible way.

Having a shitty economy or one where, if you aren't like vlast using EUO to rail mine, makes it nearly impossible to compete in any form. I'd like to see heavier moderation on AFK mining, I don't think it's unreasonable to check up on players, ask them to go into the ingame chat and talk for a minute to prove they're not AFK or are alt tabbed to another screen.

Personally I think a 2minute response time is more than enough for someone who's not unattended resource gathering. Anything more than 10 minutes without a respons or page when they return and see themselves in jail, would be grounds for a suspension.

With a shard of 500, one person afk'ing up 300,000 ingots can tank an economy easily. This isn't OSI with 10,000 people and 500 gathering all over the map to create less availability. It's 500 where 1 can gather insane amounts and just forget it.

Limiting accounts, connected clients as well could help new people and crafters. The ability to afk all your resources and have every conceivable skill in game is detrimental to maintaining a stable economy as well.


Influx of gold and ease of obtaining through PvM is also kind of curious. I haven't experienced everything the shard has to offer yet, but I can already see how unstable and volatile the economy is. I'm al for era accuracy but maybe some things need to be slowed down or looked at for the good of the shard.

For the record, vlast uses a strictly razor macro. Most people don't understand how powerful of a tool razor is when used correctly. I would however, suggest lowering gold yields across the board for PvM but that is mostly a personal pet peeve.

Stable economy in UO is kind of a mythical unicorn of an idea. There are always going to be people abusing some part of the system for gold. I mean Metropolis lasted forever on what many people considered an inflated economy. Of course, I actually went after afk macroers so maybe it lessened the effects. I guess my point is that UO economies are inherently flawed because if it isn't afk/barely attended mining it will be a dungeon run for a tamer or bard to net 100k in an hour. COOL NOW YOU HAVE ENOUGH MONEY FOR TWO SMALL HOUSES! It's just an impossible expectation to have one part of the economy be affected by oversupply when the PvM part contributes far more to inflation than any mining operation as it has a equilibrium effect to a certain extent by lowering ingot prices while PvMing is just a constant stream, no, a constant deluge of gold.

Lol well thats because the original economic idea for UO was a flop, so they added a open circuit eternally expanding economy which inevitably leads to Hyper Inflation.


http://www.mine-control.com/zack/uoecon/uoecon.html

Here read this when your bored or something the economy part of it will explain everything you need to know about why Video Game economy
gets worse as it keeps going.

However, most shards wouldn't mind "giving it a few years" as most don't last that long

Well if I had a shard, I would remove bank checks, and wipe the shard of all items, houses, ect every 2 years, keeping all of the characters and what is in there back packs, virtually cleaning the gold economy because you cant hold very much gold on 5 characters.

[Hemperor]

Cletus, the things gained from PvM are done with effort and time. 100k on a bard is a couple hours.

Vlast made a few million worth of ingots with zero effort, not only that but things like that affect tinkering and blacksmith sales etc.

[cletus]

Cletus, the things gained from PvM are done with effort and time. 100k on a bard is a couple hours.

Vlast made a few million worth of ingots with zero effort, not only that but things like that affect tinkering and blacksmith sales etc.

IMO the effect of lowered ingot prices is negligible compared to the amount of money put into the system by a bard or PvMer. By your example alone a bard is much more destructive to the economy in the short period of time he is online than a 24/7 miner is.

It affects tinkering and blacksmithy for the better imo by lowering the prices for them to both train skill and sell items to players. This in turn allows newer players and players of all types to better afford early game expenses and reequipping.

While I of course see the point in that it makes it so legit players get less return for their ingots mined.. in a way all they are just minerbotting in their own way probably with a razor loop but not during the night.

Big whoop. Enforcing the rules will make price go up (maybe, lol) and then you'll just have tamers and bards ruining the economy instead.

[RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR]

Well miners don't make money, they make ingots. Bards and Tamers make money and they give it to the miners for there ingots.

So no miners don't ruin the economy for anybody except other crafters.

[cletus]

Well miners don't make money, they make ingots. Bards and Tamers make money and they give it to the miners for there ingots.

So no miners don't ruin the economy for anybody except other crafters.

And? Mining is just like PvMing except its less profitable and slower. Look, mining has an additional step in that the main point of their profession is to sell to other players which actually in my opinion puts them ABOVE any tamer or bard in it just to hit all kill and stack gold in their banks.

I dunno, I get that "legit miners" are affected by this but I don't think i've really met more than 2 or 3 people in this game that actually sit there and mine completely attended for 10 hours.

[Hemperor]

Well miners don't make money, they make ingots. Bards and Tamers make money and they give it to the miners for there ingots.

So no miners don't ruin the economy for anybody except other crafters.

And? Mining is just like PvMing except its less profitable and slower. Look, mining has an additional step in that the main point of their profession is to sell to other players which actually in my opinion puts them ABOVE any tamer or bard in it just to hit all kill and stack gold in their banks.

I dunno, I get that "legit miners" are affected by this but I don't think i've really met more than 2 or 3 people in this game that actually sit there and mine completely attended for 10 hours.

Cletus, you have COMPLETELY missed the point on this one.

It's about exploiting the game to make millions. 3 afk miners will make more than a PvMer by far without getting tired and without earning it.

People in dungeons = activity, time, effort, risk etc etc...

[RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR]

I don't farm anymore. But I use to farm with 3 accounts at once and could pull in roughly 140k/hr after gem sales (but before selling Tmaps or quality magic drops)

People talk about tamers ruining economies. Multiclienting ruins it a lot quicker than a tamer

Well Hemperor the gold only exists for the AFK miners because RoadKill farmed it lol.

[Hemperor]

What about the value of a Grandmaster Blacksmith?

Once the highest achievable crafter, can now be bought off Vlast as he can get enough resources to GM 6 of them in a couple of days now.

[RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR]

What about the value of a Grandmaster Blacksmith?

Once the highest achievable crafter, can now be bought off Vlast as he can get enough resources to GM 6 of them in a couple of days now.

Blacksmith cant smith gold coins, maybe if he makes katanas and sells them to the vendor lol.

[Hemperor]

What about the value of a Grandmaster Blacksmith?

Once the highest achievable crafter, can now be bought off Vlast as he can get enough resources to GM 6 of them in a couple of days now.

Blacksmith cant smith gold coins, maybe if he makes katanas and sells them to the vendor lol.

Do you base an economy solely on gold amounts? This goes a lot deeper than you are thinking.

[cletus]

Well miners don't make money, they make ingots. Bards and Tamers make money and they give it to the miners for there ingots.

So no miners don't ruin the economy for anybody except other crafters.

And? Mining is just like PvMing except its less profitable and slower. Look, mining has an additional step in that the main point of their profession is to sell to other players which actually in my opinion puts them ABOVE any tamer or bard in it just to hit all kill and stack gold in their banks.

I dunno, I get that "legit miners" are affected by this but I don't think i've really met more than 2 or 3 people in this game that actually sit there and mine completely attended for 10 hours.

Cletus, you have COMPLETELY missed the point on this one.

It's about exploiting the game to make millions. 3 afk miners will make more than a PvMer by far without getting tired and without earning it.

People in dungeons = activity, time, effort, risk etc etc...

My point is that it by pointing out the AFK miners for exploiting the system to make MILLIONS (OGA BOGA) you are completely neglecting the fact that PvMers dump more cash into their banks than anyone else on the shard.

Actually, YOU are completely wrong. A bard or tamer can make more than 3 afk macro miners can easily. Especially when you can macromine with 2 clients WHILE PvMing. If I recall over 24 straight hours most macrominers average between 10-15k+ ingots over 24 hours depending on the location . So thats like what, 50-75k over 24 hours? Even with all three clients running that's a paltry 150k a DAY. Pretty sure you can eclipse that easily on one bard in not even close to the amount of time.. Otherwise we'd all be mining away wouldn't we?

How do they not earn it? They made the macro and most likely are semi attended. They are free to be killed just like any PvMer.

So, PvMers > Miners in profit and faggotability. Sorry but I fail to see the downside in someone being able to make a blacksmith for less. I do however, see a lot of vets with their ideas of entitlement being butthurt about some perceived lessening of the value of their smith. (Did you mine your own ingots? lol.)