Patch 101 - May 14, 2009: Spell recovery time

[MatronDeWinter]

Just a counter for your obvious insistance that all thieves do is hide around the bank waiting to steal runebooks and gold from EVeee.

Haha - you think I loot houses and used to play a thief on OSI but leave myself open to the same? I never have anything stolen from me and I never have a house looted, so I harbor no ill will towards thieves. You're welcome to try me, but your chances of success are much lower than that of you stealing another runebook.

That had nothing to do with questioning your ability to prevent theft, though I do, highly doubt the validity of this claim..

"I never have anything stolen from me"

[EVeee]

That had nothing to do with questioning your ability to prevent theft, though I do, highly doubt the validity of this claim..

"I never have anything stolen from me"

It's not as though it's difficult... I know there are some people who can't figure it out on their own and others who can't figure it out even if you tell them, but it doesn't take a genius to shut down theft and I'm sure you know that.

FYI, for a look at my own escapades -

http://forum.uosecondage.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=7203

[MatronDeWinter]

That had nothing to do with questioning your ability to prevent theft, though I do, highly doubt the validity of this claim..

"I never have anything stolen from me"

It's not as though it's difficult... I know there are some people who can't figure it out on their own and others who can't figure it out even if you tell them, but it doesn't take a genius to shut down theft and I'm sure you know that.

FYI, for a look at my own escapades -

http://forum.uosecondage.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=7203

We both know it's easy to prevent thieves, but you had to have been robbed at some point, even if you didnt notice it, or the item was too significant to care about.

Also, LOL @ Ace getting looted, I like you infinately more after those pics.

[EVeee]

but you had to have been robbed at some point, even if you didnt notice it, or the item was too insignificant to care about.

I did have a rune stolen once, on another freehshard that I won't name. I wasn't protecting myself because I wasn't carrying anything I thought anyone would want to steal. Then I realized the guy was trying to pick a fight, so I just let him keep it.

Also, LOL @ Ace getting looted, I like you infinately more after those pics.

Oh, was that ACE? Omg, I didn't realize....

A couple of ACE boys killed my bard a little while ago... they had it coming.

[Clark_Kent]

You two are both getting horribly off topic. Please keep this discussion relevant to the patch so that we don't lose focus on the issue at hand.

[Mens Rea]

The changes made to runebooks are absurd. Runebooks are meant to be able to be stolen.

Not to mention the justification for having runebooks on the server is based around server efficacy, not server accuracy. So the changes made are inconsistent with the reasoning as to why runebooks are on the server as well.

Sui Juris

[Derrick]

Runebooks can still be stolen.
The part of this change that effects the mechanic for stealing items of zero weight is accurate and efficacious to the entire era.

If the dispute is on the weight of the runebooks, what weight is it proposed that they should be?

[Spitfire]

Runebooks can still be stolen.
The part of this change that effects the mechanic for stealing items of zero weight is accurate and efficacious to the entire era.

If the dispute is on the weight of the runebooks, what weight is it proposed that they should be?

I vote 1 stone. From untargeted in one patch to easily stolen in the next. That's how you debate!

[MatronDeWinter]

I think that the weight should be returned to their pre-patch numbers, and the item should be targeted. I don't think anyone is contesting the weight, as much as the targetability.

[Clark_Kent]

Runebooks can still be stolen.
The part of this change that effects the mechanic for stealing items of zero weight is accurate and efficacious to the entire era.

If the dispute is on the weight of the runebooks, what weight is it proposed that they should be?

As MatrondeWinter has highlighted, it is the targetability that is the issue. Era questions aside (This change was technically in 2000 and there are many things from the 2000 era that have been chosen to be left out here. To quote on the mainsite: "reproduced the 1999 OSI UO experience." Which I would assume would indicate that 1999 is our target era here.), while one could argue that they are still stealable in theory--again, as MatrondeWinter has highlighted earlier in this thread--, in practice, they are now effectively unstealable.

Random steal is only effectively used in combat situations when it isn't practical to snoop a players pack, and even then it's shooting in the dark and only becomes increasingly effective the longer you stand toe-to-toe, which unless they are AFK, isn't going to be longer than one or possibly two chances if you are mounted. The mechanics of the skill have just as good of a chance of trying to steal a too heavy item, a newbied item, or any number of probabilities based on what a player is carrying inside their pack. To put it frankly, it's an idiotic way to try and steal something.

I don't see any reasonable explanation for this change other than to significantly decrease their stealability. Their previous weight, (3 stones I believe), is negligible in any sort of players container. And if that were the case, it would be just as effective for OSI to have changed the weight of the runebook to something heavier and thus increase the fail rate. I'm not sure what the authorial intent of this change was for OSI, but as it plays out--it's a nerf against the economic viability of a thief and it will have an effect on that sector of the player economy. It gives an advantage to player killing over thieving in the overall player versus player realm of interaction, encouraging beating a player to death and taking everything rather than targeting one item and getting the hell out of dodge.

[Eulogy]

Speaking of stealing runebooks..
I don't think you were able to hold a runebook or spellbook in your hand during the targetted T2A era.
I believe that implementation was introduced when you were forced to hold your spellbook in your hand to cast spells.

Thoughts?

[MatronDeWinter]

Speaking of stealing runebooks..
I don't think you were able to hold a runebook or spellbook in your hand during the targetted T2A era.
I believe that implementation was introduced when you were forced to hold your spellbook in your hand to cast spells.

Thoughts?

I seem to remember something along those lines, but I cant remember what the exact case was. I have pointed out before (with many ill thoughts on players grasping their runebook for dear life) that I was not quite sure that they should be equipable during the period of their conception, but trying to find a source for this proves futile.

[Nickm690]

There was no patch to change runebooks back in 2000, this is how it was when runebooks were first implemented. If you are going to argue that we should be aiming for accuracy in the year 1999 then there shouldnt be runebooks at all. I think id prefer to have them around.

[Silverfoot]

Speaking of stealing runebooks..
I don't think you were able to hold a runebook or spellbook in your hand during the targetted T2A era.
I believe that implementation was introduced when you were forced to hold your spellbook in your hand to cast spells.

Thoughts?

I seem to remember something along those lines, but I cant remember what the exact case was. I have pointed out before (with many ill thoughts on players grasping their runebook for dear life) that I was not quite sure that they should be equipable during the period of their conception, but trying to find a source for this proves futile.

The same link that says they have no weight also says that they are equippable. I think being able to equip your spellbook was always around, but that's something that is easily checkable in the t2a demo anyway.

[Clark_Kent]

Well, I just proved to myself that it's not impossible to steal runebooks. I just snagged one at WBB, in the middle of a crowd, with a grey guard flag.

I spotted a character with a pack horse and a second character approaching that the packhorse was transfered to. Seeing a player distracted by likely multi-clienting, I took the opportunity to do a ride-by-snoop and spotted a pack with some newbie clothes, a bag, a rune, and a runebook.

I set my last target to the player and decided to give it a go. I snagged the rune on the first attempt, and started to get the usual "bug off thief" verbal assault. Before she could lay into me with a second string of insults, ten seconds had passed and I hit my last target macro again and came up with the runebook and a "The guards may now be called on you!" Of course this quickened my pace, as I fled the crowd and began to spam my hide macro.

I made it out of view, with a half-full runebook as a trophy. I returned to give the lost runebook back, to be met with a second verbal assault followed by some magic spells flung in my direction. I paralyzed her, informed her of how to prevent future loss of her runebook, and went on my way--quite surprised at the result of my little experiment.

I'll keep testing, to see if the initial fears of this change are merely alarmist or if this was an isolated "lucky" anomaly.

edit: Heh, while typing this post--she came back and killed me at the bank. Shows what I get for returning it free of charge and being courteous. Well played, Citizen Moriana Firesong, next time it won't be returned with advice.