Equipping while casting

[Kraarug]

The demo is not accurate, Faust and everyone else who believes so is being foolish.

Let's trust the memories of players over a demo that was never accurate the live server.

You are missing something, the demo was prepared may/june 1998. The CD which contained the demo was released 3 months later in september 1998. That's already 3 months of progress. 3 months of patch notes, 3 months of changes. The live servers evolved, kept evolving and still evole, the demo never did and is still a replica of mid 1998 OSI server. Combine the demo code and patch notes and I believe you will have the most era-accurate server ever.

It's missing many features that we knew in UO including this feature.

Don't be vague please, what other features? Give us something to work with.

The problem with this Batlin is that the Demo doesn't match ANY point in time with a production server. Patch notes do not match the server, we just know that it was a test server dated sometime in June.

Abyss was a test server, many other changes proposed were placed on test servers and never implemented.

Although the demo is a good era period source, it can not be a definitive source because we don't know what junk is in it that didn't make it to the live server.

[Faust]

What proof do you have that this was a test server out of curiousity?

Abyss and test center used the exact code that the production shards. The key difference was that Abyss added at that time a customized faction system in it. Test center on the other hand didn't have anything special like the UOR version did besides the upcoming changes. If the demo is a "test center" it actually would be better since it's the original with future changes in process. A good example of this is the Reputation system in the demo that didn't exist until the t2a era a few months later.

[Kraarug]

When you cast a spell and equip a weapon during the casting process it interrupts your spell on UO Second Age currently. The change would allow you to continue the casting sequence with a weapon equipped just like you are able to do in the demo. The rest of the responses in this thread are either off topic or provide information that supports this change with historical sources and references.

Faust, I have been out of commission for about 4 months now but I see little has changed in your mo or motives.

Look, none of your sources appear to back up what you claim and they were all 2000+.

If you equiped ANYTHING before you finished your cast cycle it would interrupt you. RoadKill confirms this and anyone who played T2A and would like to play a real T2A replica would attest to this fact.

Now, once you've completed your cast cycle, you could arm, swing, drop the weapon and release the spell.

THIS IS T2A Pre-CASTING.

Remember, you seem to confuse and combine Pre-Casting with weapon cycling.

Pre-Casting = The ability to CAST (COMPLETE CYCLE), Then ARM, then SWING, Then DISARM, Then RELEASE.

Anyone who suggests T2A was anything different either is remember some L33T private OMG PvP shard or just wants something gimp.

[Kraarug]

What proof do you have that this was a test server out of curiousity?

Want proof?

I tell you what Faust, You DATE the Demo. Show us EXACTLY the date of the Demo through patch notes.

You will find, as Batlin has touched upon, that the Demo does not follow patch notes. There are things in it that are non sequential to the production shard and some things never made it.

So, to me, that's pretty much a solid case to call it a test shard.

Also, consider the very nature of the demo... It was a DEMO.

[Faust]

Here is a compiled list of information that retains to this topic.

_____________________________________________

Demo - The demo that was last compiled around July '98 or a couple months before the t2a era utilizes the "old" pre-casting version that allows spells to continue casting when equipping items like weapons, etc..

Patches - There is no patch indicating any change to this feature until the removal of pre-casting listed here.

Pre-casting was reinstated later on during the UOR era here in '01. The new pre-casting version clearly states that it was reactivated "as followed" meaning with stipulations in my opinion. One of these stipulations in this patch mentions "You cannot equip anything while you are casting." inside the patch description.

UOPowergamers Discussing Reimplementation of Pre-Casting - - The next update to TX6 will have some changes to *precasting*

1] You will no longer be able to arm a weapon durring the delay period of the spell.
2] You will be able to arm a weapon after the delay period (when you have the spell target cursor).
3] Targeting the spell will auto unequip your weapon (if you have one in your hand)

Like I said Im not sure when but on the next publish to tx6 these changes will be active. Enjoy and feedback is always welcome


Adrick - Designer - Ultima Online
Origin Systems Inc.
EA.COM


Like you thought they were going to leave it the way it was? Ya think?

Personally, I think this type of precasting adds a little bit of flava.


_____________________________________________


This is the only information that I have found so far on this topic and more will be added later when it has been discovered. I think the evidence is pretty overwhelming in support for such a change. The old version of pre-casting seems more logical in my opinion.

haha, so pre t2a pre casting that allowed you to continue the casting sequence and the test center shard that did the same in '01 when pre cast was re-enabled was an "OMG L33t t2a shard"?

Please don't try to lecture me on what pre casting is either, btw.

The only reason pre casting is even being brought into this discussion is for two reasons. First, when pre casting was removed in early '00 this made it pointless to equip a weapon during the casting sequence since the target would be wiped when you unequip the weapon. This particular patch didn't actually remove the ability to equip a weapon during the cast sequence. The UOR patch that forced a spellbook in your hands actually did this. Second, when pre casting was re-enabled in '01 this removed the requirement of a spellbook in your hands in order to cast. This allowed you to continue the casting seqeuence upon equipping a weapon just like it did before the UOR publish. This was patched out in the test center just as the OSI developer stated in the UO Power Gamers article above. The way they fxed this was by making your spell interrupt during the casting sequence.

Sorry, the only people that remember equipping weapons during the casting sequence interrupting the spell are actually corrupted by fake t2a shards that use the UOR version of pre casting.

Thanks, son.

[Batlin]

Want proof?

I tell you what Faust, You DATE the Demo. Show us EXACTLY the date of the Demo through patch notes.

You will find, as Batlin has touched upon, that the Demo does not follow patch notes. There are things in it that are non sequential to the production shard and some things never made it.

So, to me, that's pretty much a solid case to call it a test shard.

Also, consider the very nature of the demo... It was a DEMO.

Here we go...

Inside the DAT file you can find a file named update.txt.q which you can open with WordPad or Notepad or whatever. I've added a screenshot:

Update.Txt.Q aka 12576.jpg (52.32 KiB) Viewed 2793 times

That text can be found here: http://www.ne.jp/asahi/aeg/uo/oldupdate/uooldnews.html

12:09pm

We are ready to continue the implementation of the Reputation System. Today is the second phase of the process, which is publishing to a single public server. We will be updating the Great Lakes Shard at 2:00pm CST today. We will be monitoring this server closely throughout the day. If everything runs normally, then we will continue to the third phase of the process on Thursday by updating the remaining public servers

Every change after that is not gonna be in the demo.

4:01pm

We are currently updating the new Reputation system to the Great Lakes shard. We will be watching the shard closely for any problems

Sounds to me that the code found in the demo was online for one hour on Great Lakes until a bug was found and the server was shutdown for update.

We are taking down Great Lakes to make a minor adjustment to the Reputation System. It should be back up very soon.

Great Lakes = Test Center?

Also, consider the very nature of the demo... It was a DEMO.

Yes, a demo that contains explicit multi-player code, a demo that has explicit code for mounts (different walk speed, unmount code when you die), a demo that has full support for counselors at different levels (speech, commands, combat, movement) http://forum.joinuo.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=511, a demo that supports the GOD client (http://kec.cz/tartaros/steamengine/uplo ... godcli.htm).

Yes, it was ment as a demo but if you tear off the official skin you will see it isn't.

Additionaly, I don't believe there has been any change with only the demo to back it up

[Kraarug]

I think this matter has already been hashed out.

All you provide is chatter about the re-implementaiton of pre-casting but it wasn't how it worked T2A.

Any change in this area would be unjustified and unwarranted, not to mention unsupported by what actually happpened in T2A.

[Kraarug]

Want proof?

I tell you what Faust, You DATE the Demo. Show us EXACTLY the date of the Demo through patch notes.

You will find, as Batlin has touched upon, that the Demo does not follow patch notes. There are things in it that are non sequential to the production shard and some things never made it.

So, to me, that's pretty much a solid case to call it a test shard.

Also, consider the very nature of the demo... It was a DEMO.

Here we go...

Inside the DAT file you can find a file named update.txt.q which you can open with WordPad or Notepad or whatever. I've added a screenshot:

Update.Txt.Q aka 12576.jpg

That text can be found here: http://www.ne.jp/asahi/aeg/uo/oldupdate/uooldnews.html

12:09pm

We are ready to continue the implementation of the Reputation System. Today is the second phase of the process, which is publishing to a single public server. We will be updating the Great Lakes Shard at 2:00pm CST today. We will be monitoring this server closely throughout the day. If everything runs normally, then we will continue to the third phase of the process on Thursday by updating the remaining public servers

Every change after that is not gonna be in the demo.

4:01pm

We are currently updating the new Reputation system to the Great Lakes shard. We will be watching the shard closely for any problems

Sounds to me that the code found in the demo was online for one hour on Great Lakes until a bug was found and the server was shutdown for update.

We are taking down Great Lakes to make a minor adjustment to the Reputation System. It should be back up very soon.

Great Lakes = Test Center?

Also, consider the very nature of the demo... It was a DEMO.

Yes, a demo that contains explicit multi-player code, a demo that has explicit code for mounts (different walk speed, unmount code when you die), a demo that has full support for counselors at different levels (speech, commands, combat, movement) http://forum.joinuo.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=511, a demo that supports the GOD client (http://kec.cz/tartaros/steamengine/uplo ... godcli.htm).

Yes, it was ment as a demo but if you tear off the official skin you will see it isn't.

Additionaly, I don't believe there has been any change with only the demo to back it up

I never said that the code was a brand new, start from the ground up, project. It was obviously taken from somewhere.

What I'm saying is that the demo is not unaltered code.

We know it's sloppy, so I'm not surprised that you found some dat note file.

The fact is, we can't place it as a honest to goodness actual live server because it was altered can we?

I don't remember seeing a helpful wisp when i logged in. Maybe Chessy missed that patch, IDK.

[Kraarug]

And Batiln, I agree with you. No change should be based on the demo alone.

Faust, you will not find explicit, step by step, directions from OSI about how to replicate something that was considered a bug (And, so you don't forget, that was the ability to ARM after casting a spell and getting a target cursor so you wouldn't fizzel). Standing there and saying "prove to me yada yada yada" is not a vailid argument.

Your case isn't prima facie. The burden of proof for a change is on you.

Prove to us, now that we have the system we have, that it must be different.

Btw, that's called stare decisis.

[Faust]

I think this matter has already been hashed out.

All you provide is chatter about the re-implementaiton of pre-casting but it wasn't how it worked T2A.

Any change in this area would be unjustified and unwarranted, not to mention unsupported by what actually happpened in T2A.

We have evidence to support the change and you have none to support your argument besides a "memory" that contradicts Derrick's memory at that too. What was provided is the way it worked in July '98 and the way it worked when pre casting was reimplemented when they removed the forceful injection of the spellbook to your characters hands when casting a spell. This tells me that this feature never changed from point A to point B until proven otherwise.

Sorry, try to provide a better source than a "memory" next time son.

[Kraarug]

I think this matter has already been hashed out.

All you provide is chatter about the re-implementaiton of pre-casting but it wasn't how it worked T2A.

Any change in this area would be unjustified and unwarranted, not to mention unsupported by what actually happpened in T2A.

We have evidence to support the change and you have none to support your argument besides a "memory" that contradicts Derrick's memory at that too. What was provided is the way it worked in July '98 and the way it worked when pre casting was reimplemented when they removed the forceful injection of the spellbook to your characters hands when casting a spell. This tells me that this feature never changed from point A to point B until proven otherwise.

Sorry, try to provide a better source than a "memory" next time son.

Please quote Derrick's memory.

From dealing with you for as long as I have, I have learned to pin you down to your sources and certainly, never trust your interpretation of a Japanese UO site. (double hally whack. HA!)

[Faust]

You could disrupt spells in-era. No, I don't have proof.

I'm not sure about this. I was playing other shards for a while where you could do this and it certainly didn't feel like how it felt playing on OSI. Of course their spell timers were really fast too so that changes the feel, but I remember on OSI if I made a poor spell choice I would have to wait until it was done casting and then click on something to get rid of the target cursor.

That is not to say that you couldn't do it, but based on my memory and the patch notes they have I think that puts it in the more likely category that you couldn't

That's my recollection too, especially blade spirits. Not saying it was the case "for sure", but it sure seems it to me.

Please feel free to ask him if he still holds these views.

[Kraarug]

You could disrupt spells in-era. No, I don't have proof.

I'm not sure about this. I was playing other shards for a while where you could do this and it certainly didn't feel like how it felt playing on OSI. Of course their spell timers were really fast too so that changes the feel, but I remember on OSI if I made a poor spell choice I would have to wait until it was done casting and then click on something to get rid of the target cursor.

That is not to say that you couldn't do it, but based on my memory and the patch notes they have I think that puts it in the more likely category that you couldn't

That's my recollection too, especially blade spirits. Not saying it was the case "for sure", but it sure seems it to me.

Please feel free to ask him if he still holds these views.

What do you recall Faust?

[Kraarug]

I think this matter has already been hashed out.

All you provide is chatter about the re-implementaiton of pre-casting but it wasn't how it worked T2A.

Any change in this area would be unjustified and unwarranted, not to mention unsupported by what actually happpened in T2A.

We have evidence to support the change and you have none to support your argument besides a "memory" that contradicts Derrick's memory at that too. What was provided is the way it worked in July '98 and the way it worked when pre casting was reimplemented when they removed the forceful injection of the spellbook to your characters hands when casting a spell. This tells me that this feature never changed from point A to point B until proven otherwise.

Sorry, try to provide a better source than a "memory" next time son.

Son, I'll provide one of the most unreliable inconsitant sources I can find. How about a player by the name of Faust? You should email him and ask him why he agrees with me.

It's hard to be "for something before I (you) were against it" son.

I always have remembered self disrupts while casting when equipping a weapon personally too. There are three different versions of this function...

Pre-T2a: You could continue while casting if you equipped a weapon.
T2a: You would disrupt yourself while casting if you equipped a weapon.
UOR(after pre casting was reimplemented): Works the same as it does on here now.

There has been no evidence that I have found to prove this one way or the other. Here is where this shard pretty much bases this function off from I believe.

Combat Damage Changes Aug 20 2001 2:34AM CST
Pre-Casting
"Pre-casting" has been re-enabled as follows:
You cannot equip anything while you are casting.
After you cast a spell, it will "time out" after 30 seconds and can no longer target anything. During those 30 seconds, you can now equip a weapon, attack with it without ruining your stored spell. When you release the spell, you will automatically unwield your weapon.

When precasting was reimplemented they made it to where you could also not equip anything while you're casting. The logic behind this was to use this same feature for the pre-casting on this shard.

The reason that I know this isn't correct is solely based on my memory with no evidence to back it up. UOE 6 had a bug with its equip macro. It was delayed by about a second. So if you were to screw this up you would screw your spell up by equipping too early. If you did it too late you would waste your insta hit, etc... I know that this couldn't be for the early '00 days when pre-casting was removed, because UOE was officially dead by this time. However, like I said there is no evidence to back this claim up that I have been able to find...

Shall I go on?

[Kraarug]

The patch note is from 2001.
This insinuates that previous to 2001, you could indeed equip a weapon while casting.

This was a pre-t2a mechanic. Being able to equip a weapon and continue casting was fixed around the t2a era.