Second Age: An Entirely Different Game - A Dead Horse Kicked

[Einstein]

Macro'ing just masks a larger issue of players being able to have up to 15 characters over 3 accounts, which means an individual can create an entire array of crafters, pks, pvm, pvp, etc. characters. Combined with being able to macro them all up to GM unattended, 3 at a time, and you have greatly reduced the need for player interaction and an economy. In my opinion it would be more ideal to limit people to 1 account per IP, with a 1 month grace period to decide which characters to transfer to those five slots and pack up any houses, bank accounts, etc.

Although it would be better in some ways to remove macro'ing altogether, I think at this point it would just create an insurmountable barrier to entry for new players and those who are borederline on having the time/inclination to play anyway. As much as it sucks that everyone can become a 7x GM in a week of macro'ing, it's preferable to a server with a reduced population due to people saying 'f this' to manually casting 10,000 flamestrikes to reach GM.

Beyond any other points or counterpoints:

You could always macro for free in UO, and even at the highest points of prevention and policing, do so without being banned.

You could never own 3 accounts for free. And while we cannot make people pay for accounts, we can certainly limit them to just 1 account.

[Teph]

it is allowed to level the playing field i dont think its a viable option to enforce such rules as there is no paid staff to monitor 500 people a day, there will always be a way to macro...

back when i played on osi i wasnt aware of 3rd party programs, and the staff there sure as hell never told me about them but i wish they did, i was fighting with a huuuuge disadvantage for like 2 years and i wasnt a big enough nerd to look through forums and pay for programs...... when i came here i was forced to have a third party program and thank god for that because im up against keyboard mashing nerds who do math problems to figure out combos


the moral of this story is, there will always be people who figure out how to macro and do illegal things and by making it universal alot of people are being spared having to compete with some nerd who found a glitch in the system

[Biohazard]

SHARD WIPE!! WHO'S WITH ME??!?!

[romm221b]

I've been playing Second Age for well over a year now. While I have taken a few breaks in that time, I often get an itch to play old UO, remembering fondly the game that has always been quite the addiction of mine. I recently returned from such a break, excited as hell to get back into the T2A experience.

I looked over my 3 accounts, all containing some advanced chars, 4 of them completely finished; ready to play. They all seemed stale, somehow playing a finished character that I left off with months ago held no interest for me. I decided to try something different, a new build in hopes of creating some excitement in my gameplay. I first macro'd up all the skills that required fewer resources, farmed for a few nights, then began finishing the build, working resist, etc. I had an itch to just jump in and play the entire time, but I knew I could finish the character in but a fraction of the time by macroing. Even in my free time, when on the computer, I knew that I would get my gains much faster by simply letting the macros run, than by actively and regularly playing the game. The option of trying to compete in pvp with an unfinished character, seemed impractical...Id be at a huge disadvantage and would eventually have to return to the macroing if I wanted a playable character any time soon.

In a little over a week, I had a perfect 7x char. I had my other existing chars from before when I played. I had chars to do my resource gathering, chars to make my items (pots and such). Everything was finished, I was ready to participate, to go out and play the game now and be on par with the rest of the playerbase.

I played for the next few days participating in daily events, looking for field pvp in between. While I did find some in the dungeons, it was off and on at best. I started frequenting Brit GY where the action was more consistent and was content for the next couple of nights. The pvp became redundant. On occasion, the reds would dominate the area with a decent group, often the blues would have control, having 6-8 of them waiting for a lone red to jump on (or settling for a grey even, heh). It went back an forth like this and I started noticing a similarity between this server and a test server. The players here have the option to quickly max out their chars, with little real work required...once that was done, there was little else to do really but look for other pvpers, fight in a familiar area and kill time between events. The need to actively play the game was gone, there were no more goals, all the characters were finished, any items sought after could be easily attained with a character designed just for farming, there was no more challenge, no more goals. This is vastly different from the game I remembered being so excited about.

This here is where many would interject with cries of "this isn't '98...we're all older now, its a ten year old game..."

How depressing. =P

This idea that everyone who played T2A was 16-18, living at home with all the free time in the world is a gross misconception. In fact, out of the 10 UO players I knew irl, 6 were in their mid-twenties to early thirties, all with full time jobs, their own houses to take care of, some of them with families. From what I have seen, UO had a fairly diverse playerbase. As for the game being too old or outdated....well, you reading this is a testament to it's relative timelessness. The game, in it's design was unique and created wonderfully exciting gameplay. I highly doubt that other games have gotten that much better, or we are all too old to really enjoy UO anymore, heh.

I think, what is so different from here and actual T2A, are the inaccuracies that still exist. While the details...the scripts, mechanics, have all been worked out to be very close to the era, we still have a number of issues that have changed this game so much from the game it once was.

The rules, the very approach to the game has been changed from one of challenge and progression to one of accommodation....relaxed systems and rules that I think were made in order to attract players, to better contend in the freeshard community.

But this shard, like all of the other freeshards, has overlooked one of the most fundamental concepts in all rpgs, that through continual gameplay, your character advances. Be it unlocking a new ability or spell, being able to make a new item,being able to afford bigger and better luxuries, or simply all round having a tougher character, the idea is simple; the more you play, the better you get. This simple concept, one of character progression, advancement and simply having goals to look forward to, combined with the interaction (both positive and negative) of countless other players, was what made UO so exciting. Having nearly unattainable goals, always having a way to improve, combined with the fierce competition of other players, it was challenging as all hell and made you want to play and to play, always having something to work towards.

Back to the present day, amidst a sea of freeshards catering to pvpers and others who want to be able to simply "jump in and play", we look at char development as a nuisance to get out of the way...be it skill balls, power hours, or afk macroing, the staff of nearly all free shards try to attract to the greediness of players, telling them there's a simple, quick way to get to the top....but in the end, it allows players to beat the game in mere weeks, to have a finished char, a butt ton of items and a big ass house, all with little to no work required. The only cost? Reduced activity in the game world, a number of imbalances to pvp that occur with everyone having maxed out chars, a screwed up economy where everyone has their own crafters....a game nothing like what it once was.

I know that the topic of eliminating macroing and returning to active gameplay has been brought up time and time before, I have read every discussion Ive been able to find on it, seen the responses, but I have still yet to find one decent argument for why it is here on a shard that values accuracy before all else.

I think, when it comes down to it, those that are comfortable and happy with afk macroing here either never played the era...never truly experienced or understood it, or did and have, but have been playing freeshards for so long that they have grown accustomed to that sense of entitlement...feeling they should be able to play a max'd char with all the luxuries and shouldn't even have to play the game for any of it. This whole concept has taken what was a brilliant game design so vital for the gameplay that we all miss and love, and thrown it out. And then we wonder why so many of us have grown bored with the game, feel no excitement left and why this game is so starkly different from the game we remember.

Please, give me a valid argument for why macroing is fine, why it goes along with the accuracy that this community so strives for, Ive yet to hear one.


[/rant]

You simply don't understand that beyond the 7x barrier there is so many goals.... Some of us will never achieve them.

Will you be a pvp master ever? i doubt it. Will i? i doubt this also. Everytime you fight you notice something the other mage does and learn. This is 100 times as valuable as any item you could get. Learning is everything. Knowledge is everything.

Beyond that for pvm players do you own a castle? Shit because i don't. I may own a keep but that took me a long year to get and shitload of money. In fact im broke now because of that and working hard to get more money. There are lots of achievements to be had, like making nice looking houses and having large stocks of regs, kegs, and items. Its all about hoarding lots of items, rares and etc.

And the trophy system allows you to get lots of cool decoration items but take long amounts of time to get them but are worth it to get them.

Do you own a guild? A player run town? Shit i won't ever most likely but thats something insane to save for and work toward.

There is so much to strive for in this game, you just don't get it.

[benny-]

The argument was never that there were simply no more goals left, obviously there is always something to try to achieve...owning a keep, getting blessed sandals, etc etc....

The same could be said of any era, free server, or other version of UO.

The discussion was about char development, a key element of old UO, which has been completely neutered by lax policies, elaborate third party apps, and mutliclienting. One cannot argue that these elements haven't in fact made this server very different from the actual era. The original post, which you quoted was showing an example of how char progression, something that once took many months, is now a game of macroing that takes mere nights.

However, I realize that a number of major issues will most likely never be changed here on this server...they have gone on too long as is, to where it'd likely be detrimental to the server to try to address these issues, I've come to accept it and I still very much enjoy this server.

At any rate, this thread is dead and these subjects were dead long before I made this original post.

Before bringing up other month-dead threads, try doing more than simply skimming over it, making an off topic reply and insulting the OP by saying I "just dont get it".

[Psilo]

To me UO's fun factor is far beyond goals but goals are also part of the fun as well.

UO is one of those games where I don't even have to be doing very much to enjoy, then something random happens and suddenly I am doing something. Player interaction happens.

What UOSA needs most is more positive players and less hybrid-esque douchebags like RIP and any other "only pvp" who lack imagination and can't play the game without flaming everyone with low levels of intellect being shown. It's funny how the shard's bottom of the barrel players are the ones that spend most of their time in mIRC or 1v1 tourneys. Lol.

But anyway to get back on track.....What keeps UO alive is the community. Without the community aspect in all ways(pvm, good vs evil, pvp, crafting, events, player run towns) what good is the gameplay or specific mechanics such as PVP?

UOSA's mechanics are fine atm, it's the players attitude and vibes that affect the shard overall. The players project in the atmosphere everywhere they go.

[romm221b]

The argument was never that there were simply no more goals left, obviously there is always something to try to achieve...owning a keep, getting blessed sandals, etc etc....

The same could be said of any era, free server, or other version of UO.

The discussion was about char development, a key element of old UO, which has been completely neutered by lax policies, elaborate third party apps, and mutliclienting. One cannot argue that these elements haven't in fact made this server very different from the actual era. The original post, which you quoted was showing an example of how char progression, something that once took many months, is now a game of macroing that takes mere nights.

However, I realize that a number of major issues will most likely never be changed here on this server...they have gone on too long as is, to where it'd likely be detrimental to the server to try to address these issues, I've come to accept it and I still very much enjoy this server.

At any rate, this thread is dead and these subjects were dead long before I made this original post.

Before bringing up other month-dead threads, try doing more than simply skimming over it, making an off topic reply and insulting the OP by saying I "just dont get it".

That is that problem. You don't get it. There is no way to stop 3rd party programs or multi-clienting even when it was illegal! It simply isn't going to happen. And the worst part of the game to me was always building up your character. It takes a lot of wasted time that you could be playing and pvping. And if your not complete your always at a slight disadvantage.

The only thing you can do is:

A. Keep trying more templates to have a variety of characters
B. Set goals for getting items/amounts of money
C. PVP tell you can't PVP no more

SecondAge was all about pvp. Your never gonna get that feel of having masses and masses of newbies like on OSI, it will never be original but this server is still the best.

/thread

[Biohazard]

SecondAge was all about pvp. Your never gonna get that feel of having masses and masses of newbies like on OSI, it will never be original but this server is still the best.

/thread

T2A and UO as a whole is not all about pvp.. UO is about UO and it encompasses everything within the game. now maybe PVP is all it was about for you... but the game as a whole? no...

multi-clienting and third party apps were not quite so rampant back in the day.. i would put it at over 80% of people are multi clienting and using third party apps now on this shard. I'll bet it was under 50% in the hey-day... and i feel thats being generous at both ends of the spectrum.

[archaicsubrosa77]

I find myself making characters all the time...some I macro some I don't. You don't have to macro everything and shouldn't. Some people like having just one character maybe a few, some have up to 15. Even though I have been on test, for some reason I try to test things out in game oddly enough and make a ton of peculiar templates. Some I keep others I discard for another idea.

Mix it up, no it's okay, you can do that. Macro some skills, all skills, or none at all for each character you make to have fun. The point is to have fun. You might like double clicking each menu and wait to see if blacksmithing gains, or hold down stealth until you have to hide again, maybe you don't. Freedom to do as you will has been underrated.

[romm221b]

SecondAge was all about pvp. Your never gonna get that feel of having masses and masses of newbies like on OSI, it will never be original but this server is still the best.

/thread

T2A and UO as a whole is not all about pvp.. UO is about UO and it encompasses everything within the game. now maybe PVP is all it was about for you... but the game as a whole? no...

multi-clienting and third party apps were not quite so rampant back in the day.. i would put it at over 80% of people are multi clienting and using third party apps now on this shard. I'll bet it was under 50% in the hey-day... and i feel thats being generous at both ends of the spectrum.

Back in the day as soon as the programs starting coming out, everyone in my guild had them as did i. Third party applications were always a huge issue and cannot simply be fixed.

There are two things to do in this game after you complete your character. Hoard gold/items or pvp. I prefer pvp

If you prefer to hoard gold/items feel free.

[Psilo]

There are two things to do in this game after you complete your character. Hoard gold/items or pvp. I prefer pvp

Lol, only closed minded people think pvp is one of only two things to do in UO.

A

[romm221b]

There are two things to do in this game after you complete your character. Hoard gold/items or pvp. I prefer pvp

Lol, only closed minded people think pvp is one of only two things to do in UO.

A

Enlightenment me o smart ass o

[Biohazard]

Enlightenment me o smart ass o

there tons o shit to do.. just open your eyes.. why you gonna make us waste our time listing every little function of UO.

[Pristiq]

There are two things to do in this game after you complete your character. Hoard gold/items or pvp. I prefer pvp

Lol, only closed minded people think pvp is one of only two things to do in UO.

A

Enlightenment me o smart ass o

Craft
RP
Run events
Help new players
Grief

Art thou enlightened enough o dumb ass o?

[romm221b]

There are two things to do in this game after you complete your character. Hoard gold/items or pvp. I prefer pvp

Lol, only closed minded people think pvp is one of only two things to do in UO.

A

Enlightenment me o smart ass o

Craft
RP
Run events
Help new players
Grief

Art thou enlightened enough o dumb ass o?

Running what kind of events? Most events are pvp...
Crafting is for doing what? Making furniture to put all your gold/items on that you hoarded or selling them to get more things to hoard.
RPing? I haven't seen one good RPer on this server, i would enjoy that but you guys have no imagination and i dare you to prove me wrong

Helping new players? shit i do that everyday while i pvp and farm

Griefing....lol thats just a dumbas form of pvp to me.