May we please have a no restrictions tourney with looting?

[Hemperor]

I think the truth of the matter is stealing is probably the most exploited skill on this shard. No one uses it accurately and it's many times more efficient than it should be on this shard. It would simply turn in to macro battles of steal by type, essentially just making the problem more apparent for all to see and creating an incredibly boring tournament.

I'm just not willing to believe there's people running around with a dozen different hotkeys for steal-by-type. If I KNOW someone is carrying a katana, I know they are because I snooped them and saw it. So I can just steal it directly.

You have ONE chance to steal-by-type from someone if you've stealthed up to them. So you kind of have to guess, right? Because after you try one weapon type, if you're one of the many people "exploiting" the skill, you're now revealed from using the skill and have to wait 10 seconds to try again.

Have you ever seriously seen someone abusing this? Is there some wily thief out there who runs around on horseback in dungeons, doing drive-by steal attempts every 10 seconds, first using his ALT-CTRL-V to try to steal a viking sword, then running empty-handed away for 10 seconds, then coming back and trying his CTRL-F6 hotkey to play his steal-by-type macro for war axe (woops, none of those either, OK let's wait another 10 seconds). Etc.

Thieves on here appear to "exploit" the skill, not because of Razor, but because we're all so used to the retarded bank thieves of 1999 (and, sadly, today as well). People here actually make templates for their thieves, and have more of a plan than spending two hours at WBB saying to themselves "Let me random-steal and see if I can run away with the 32 black pearl before I get whacked".

The funny part is, none of the people defending this are pvpers or ever on the field, so you guys really have no clue. "I simply doubt that" isn't valid anywhere. Steal by type is abused like mad on this shard, it's talked about all the time but all of a sudden when this topic comes up it's slipped a few selective minds. Derrick has mentioned this on numerous occassions, steal by type sticks out like a sore thumb and I'm sure everyone has been a victim of it at least once.

I think the truth of the matter is stealing is probably the most exploited skill on this shard. No one uses it accurately and it's many times more efficient than it should be on this shard. It would simply turn in to macro battles of steal by type, essentially just making the problem more apparent for all to see and creating an incredibly boring tournament.

PvP is already a macro battle is it not? You are definitely over stating the ease in which the steal skill could/would be used in these tournaments.

Not really, no and Mikel123 he was quite clearly talking about stealing regs not viking swords.

This^

[MatronDeWinter]

The funny part is, none of the people defending this are pvpers or ever on the field, so you guys really have no clue. "I simply doubt that" isn't valid anywhere. Steal by type is abused like mad on this shard, it's talked about all the time but all of a sudden when this topic comes up it's slipped a few selective minds. Derrick has mentioned this on numerous occassions, steal by type sticks out like a sore thumb and I'm sure everyone has been a victim of it at least once.

I would be willing to bet that cA is one of the most active guilds on the shard, if not the most active. We are always "in the field", we travel all over the map, to places you wouldnt think to go, because it is beneficial to to know about the environment around us.

Steal by type is NOT as common as you say, you may have been harassed by one particular player (I wont mention his name, and no he is not with us) that is notorious for this, but that is probably about the extent of it. If you say it's so common, prove it. Who is doing this? Where are your screenshots? Can you prove it's steal-by-type, or are you just ignorant of how thieves are played?

Steal-by-type does "stick out like a sore thumb", because it is incredibly inefficient. I would also like to point out that "gasp!" most cA members are members of other (and yes pvp) guilds, you just don't know who they are.

[Shea]

Hemp thoroughly enjoys making broad, unsubstantiated claims while attempting to pass them off as fact. See trash talk forum on anything 9/11

[Hemperor]

I think my argument is the only one that holds weight, you simply reply with "well it doesn't happen as much as you think", which is really all just opinion. Fact of the matter is it exists, allows for extremely easy and broken pvp with thieves and is used frequently.

[BlackFoot]

I dont think somthign as simple as a razor button should stop discussion about more diverse events. Especially when somthing as simple as a lockbox completely negates it.
Stealing is a viable pvp skill when used in game. It doesnt deal direct damage but it reduces your opponents resources. Test the event and let the results speak for themselves.

[MatronDeWinter]

I think my argument is the only one that holds weight, you simply reply with "well it doesn't happen as much as you think", which is really all just opinion. Fact of the matter is it exists, allows for extremely easy and broken pvp with thieves and is used frequently.

I did not reply with "well it doesn't happen as much as you think". I think everyone knows that you "think your argument is the only one that holds weight". You can not honestly say that thieves (using steal by type) are even remotely common. The fact is that you have no way of knowing what they are doing. As Mike123 pointed out, it makes more sense to have your items set to my last target. I asked you to prove your point, give an account, name a player? The fact is, you can't, because you rarely play yourself.

[Hemperor]

It's talked about in IRC daily.

Let's discuss the thief pvpers on this shard. I'll name two that I know:

Socks, pretty well known, also very well known for only using steal by type hotkeys while bashing you with his katana. Anyone who played with him knew this as he was open about it.

Tekai's thief pvper, I know he does the same thing and is open about it.

Not condemning either of them, it's just the obvious way to play a thief pvper atm and is also an obvious exploitation.

[Kraarug]

I vote "no" on this because these events are set apart form the normal game.

It would suck to show up for the tourney, sign up (or be in the process of signing up), load up to be ready to fight and then have to deal with the risk of a thief stealing from you.

As much as I do like the theif risk in game, shard events should be set aside as they are separate from normal player run events. There, theives are free to play as they wish.

[Shea]

All of the arguments against stealing so far completely ignore one simple fact: You can negate the steal by type through simple preparation.

Enough of the whining about what a pain in the butt the addition of stealing will be. That shouldn't even be a factor in this decision since not making a tournament where stealing is allowed just caters to a particular play style.

Hemp, you have provided absolutely no evidence thus far and your statements are largely opinion. Steal-by-type is not talked about in IRC daily. As usual you are completely over stating this in order to support your unsubstantiated point.... which has become status quo for you.

[BlackFoot]

All spells, all skills, all items, non free use, full looting. Finally a real risk v reward event.
2v2 would be sweet also.

[Hemperor]

All spells, all skills, all items, non free use, full looting. Finally a real risk v reward event.
2v2 would be sweet also.

I assume I'll be able to gate in dragons then?

[Kraarug]

All of the arguments against stealing so far completely ignore one simple fact: You can negate the steal by type through simple preparation.

Enough of the whining about what a pain in the butt the addition of stealing will be. That shouldn't even be a factor in this decision since not making a tournament where stealing is allowed just caters to a particular play style.

Hemp, you have provided absolutely no evidence thus far and your statements are largely opinion. Steal-by-type is not talked about in IRC daily. As usual you are completely over stating this in order to support your unsubstantiated point.... which has become status quo for you.

With 'target by type' there is no real negating.

If you see a person is a fencer just use your 'steal kryss-by-type' macro.

[BlackFoot]

no gating in friends and npcs to help you,
but you could use taming to tame any dragons wandering around in the arena, which i am going to guess there would be done

[Oneiros]

This is probably not constructive at all, but being a new player here and not really knowing what these tournaments I see being advertised all the time are about, I read a bit into this thread. Needless to say, I am very, very disappointed to see that these tourneys have all sorts of restricted rules and are also not full loot. Trammel. That is all. I am new so I haven't developed any PvP focused characters yet, but I hope that there is actually world pvp and that all of you aren't hiding in these tourneys...

[Shea]

All of the arguments against stealing so far completely ignore one simple fact: You can negate the steal by type through simple preparation.

Enough of the whining about what a pain in the butt the addition of stealing will be. That shouldn't even be a factor in this decision since not making a tournament where stealing is allowed just caters to a particular play style.

Hemp, you have provided absolutely no evidence thus far and your statements are largely opinion. Steal-by-type is not talked about in IRC daily. As usual you are completely over stating this in order to support your unsubstantiated point.... which has become status quo for you.

With 'target by type' there is no real negating.

If you see a person is a fencer just use your 'steal kryss-by-type' macro.

Bring more than one type of weapon? I dont believe full spears can be stolen. I know Hallys cant. Remember, thieves would be handicapped somehow by taking stealing over something else.