Poison

[Faust]

lol, that wasn't your argument in regard to insta hit. At first you argued up and down that it NEVER existed until the overwhelming research that I produced trumped your hopeless cause. The next thing you attempted was to claim my previous theory involving wrestling was correct. This proved to be the case after more research had to be done by me, not you. You hopelessly had to fall back into my previous argument simply because you knew you were wrong. That is the end of that and please don't make me go into your numerous failed attempts at trying to get absurb game mechanics that is way out of era into this shard.

Faust, what is described in Batiln's link does not exist here on UOSA with your 'assumed accurate' poison system. Why do you think that is the case? Kaivian post is UO:R Information. It woudn’t be the first time that OSI reverted a system.

You tend to selectively discount things that don't go your way. You take what fits your wants from all three sources and discount the other information.

I never said that it exists here on UOSA...

How many times must I point this out?

Kaivan's article was produced in early '00. This article produces EXACT RESULTS that the demo that was last compiled in Summer '98. Here you are again proclaiming ninja patch assumptions orccurred in between these SAME results just like your previous arguments in the past for other issues. This is always your fall back excuse when things don't go your way. NINJA PATCH! This is all based on an alchemy guide that is very minute and isn't even discussing poison damage/timers as a whole.

You are expecting Derrick to trump two significant sources that includes ACTUAL OSI CODE over one minute very insignificant source that isn't even discussing the related topic...

That would be the most ridiculously absurd reckless approach towards accuracy replication that anyone could take.

How about producing more evidence to back your "claims"?

And it's impossible that the author of Kaivan's post could've made a mistake writing that guide? I believe the other source refers to how often an ophidian can apply poison, not how often the poison damage ticks (applies poison every 3 secs, damage ticks for 5 would make sense to me.)

A guide that reproduces exact values that REAL OSI POISON CODE produces?

Only a moron wouldn't think those are "top notch" sources...

[Hicha]

Kraarug: "Here are the facts we have."
Faust: "LALALALA NOT LISTENING"
Kraarug: "We have several sources stating the calculations are inaccurate."
Faust: "DOODEEDOODEEDOO CAN'T HEAR YOU."
Kraarug: "Kaivan's post is past our cut-off, which is more in line with UO:R"
Faust: ::puts hands on ears:: "YADA YADA YADA YOU SAID NADA"
Kraarug: "And you're discrediting Batlin's post because you found one article which you believe is TOP NOTCH accurate, so all others must not be true?"
Faust: "I'M RIGHT AND YOU'RE WRONG, I'M RIGHT AND YOU'RE WRONG, I'M RIGHT AND YOU'RE WRONG."

[Redbeard72]

Poison Hallys is inaccurate . oh and off topic what happend to insta hit, i cast expltion ebolt and hally hit takes full min. seems like. should i drop my swords now and make a straight mage? i can get 3 lightnings off before the hally hits lol sad.

I am not attacking Faust cause i know your right Poison is accurate here for t2a.

[Ronk]

I suggest
- less attacking of sources and people.
- focus on the two aspects specifically.
- 5 sec vs 3 sec.
- 14-17 damage vs 10-40% damage.

From my memory, which isn't a valid source, and from my year of traveling with my brother (GM poisoner) I remember for a fact that when people got deadly poisoned they freaked. Their first instinct was to run. Their health dropped fast. 14-17 damage would NOT make someone freak out nor would it cause half of their health bar to go poof in a matter of seconds.

In addition, I do recall stamina dropping due to deadly poison as well. I don't remember the specifics but I know that when my brother and I went to attack people, often times they tried to run while DPed only to realize they had no moer stamina. Doesn't taking damage drain stamina? Thus if you took a 40% hp hit, wouldn't that drop stamina? I'm not sure.

From logic, as I stated above, if poisoning wasn't powerful they would not have nerfed it early UO:R. For some reason, they felt that anyone being able to buy a deadly poisoned sword was too powerful. 14-17 damage every 5 seconds would not have netted this result.

In regards to 5 vs 3 second timer. I really can't remember either way. Plus with lag and such, its quite possible it seemed faster than it actually was.

Also, I am curious why people believe a tinker could do level 5 poison. By all accounts/sources ive seen...everything states that level 5 poison was monster only until the AOS changes and the ability "infectious strike". As I recall, boom boxes were the only one worth doing.

[Faust]

At least we have confirmed that you are immature and can't follow this discussion hiicha.

'98 - We have actual code written by OSI for the poison system.
'00 - We have a poison article written slightly before the UOR publish that replicates this EXACT CODE written in '98.

You are seriously going to tell me that they ninja patched this in based on an alchemy guide that looks like this without any other evidence to support this?



Who would actually do this compared to ACTUAL OSI CODE and an article written during the end of the step child t2a era that produces the same results...?

Simply amazes me sometimes how people are so clueless.

Poison Hallys is inaccurate . oh and off topic what happend to insta hit, i cast expltion ebolt and hally hit takes full min. seems like. should i drop my swords now and make a straight mage? i can get 3 lightnings off before the hally hits lol sad.

I am not attacking Faust cause i know your right Poison is accurate here for t2a.

Not being able to poison two handed weapons was implemented in the UOR publish.

Wait a few seconds after unequipping a weapon to refresh your insta hit swing. Equipping the weapon with an active timer will restart the swing delay.

[Hicha]

At least we have confirmed that you are immature and can't follow this discussion hiicha.

I'm pointing out that no matter what people post or suggest, you're first reaction is "Nope, you're wrong."

'98 - We have actual code written by OSI for the poison system.
'00 - We have a poison article written slightly before the UOR publish that replicates this EXACT CODE written in '98.

You are seriously going to tell me that they ninja patched this in based on an alchemy guide that looks like this without any other evidence to support this?



Who would actually do this compared to ACTUAL OSI CODE and an article written during the end of the step child t2a era that produces the same results...?

Simply amazes me sometimes how people are so clueless.

Last I checked we're playing UO:T2A, not UO:Demo. A demo is just that; a demo. There are a lot of things implemented in the demo that aren't implemented on T2A, and there are a lot of things that have been changed between the demo, T2A and UO:R. Things change, we call them patches.

There is one source that states damage did 13%, there are several sources stating 10-40%. There are no patch notes that indicate poison damage had been changed during this time frame, so I don't see why several sources would indicate 10-40% damage if it wasn't true during.

The reason I know the damage formula is incorrect is because it's way off from either formula being presented in this thread. Whether we use a 10-40% or a steady 13% formula, the current deadly poison damage is only 9%.

If we pulled this formula from the demo, then explain how the demo changed from 9% to 13% like your article suggests. Ninja patch?

[Batlin]

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.game ... seconds%22

The woes of the assassin center around the extreme limitations of the
skills and the statistical opportunity for a successful strike. For
example, it is very expensive and difficult for the assassin to gain a
poison that serves an effective purpose and can be delivered. A Poisoner
(Assassin) with GM status of 100 Poisoning has only a 25% chance to have
the poison affect his target. A strong dose of Deadly Poison, which can
remove 10-40% of a players hit points every 5 seconds, has only twelve
applications. Thus anytime you hit, irregardless of successfully
poisoning, you lose one application. Using anything other than a Deadly
Poison is mostly useless (I may take some flames about greater poison) in
a player vs. player situation, or against greater beasts.

This is october 1998. If there is no patch note saying the poison damage interval changed to 3 seconds I guess it should remain 5 seconds.

[Derrick]

One of the primary and so far undisputed differences between poison in era and on UOSA is that the damage was not recalculated every tick on OSI. This may very well account for the statement that it was 10%-40%.

[Kraarug]

At least we have confirmed that you are immature and can't follow this discussion hiicha.

'98 - We have actual code written by OSI for the poison system.
'00 - We have a poison article written slightly before the UOR publish that replicates this EXACT CODE written in '98.

You are seriously going to tell me that they ninja patched this in based on an alchemy guide that looks like this without any other evidence to support this?



Who would actually do this compared to ACTUAL OSI CODE and an article written during the end of the step child t2a era that produces the same results...?

Simply amazes me sometimes how people are so clueless.

Here's the actual time line hijo.... Look, there is reference to a possible new poison system being implemented September 7th 1998, between the Demo and UO:R. Explain this away my hard headed friend.

4/13/98
• Poisoning has been tweaked.
• You now need approximately a 65 alchemy to make greater poison, and around a 95 alchemy to make deadly poison.
• Greater poison will no longer lower stats.
• There are now five levels of poison. The difference between them is the rate at which your health goes down. These levels of poison will have different levels of difficulty when you try to cure them. You will be able to make differing levels of poison with alchemy.
• Numerous sorts of creatures will gain poisonous attacks.


JUNE 1998 DATE OF DEMO CODE

August 18th, 2008
Date of the 3 second tick reference
http://web.archive.org/web/199910182028 ... ctic1.html

9/7/98
(NEW POISON CODE!)
• Poisoning weapons will no longer pile up empty bottles at your feet.
• As a side effect of the above, the latest poisoning code went in as well. This means that problems with the success rate in making poisons are fixed.
• Healing revisions:
• The amount you heal now ranges up to 80 points of healing, scaled based on a composite of your healing skill and your anatomy skill.
• At 60 in both healing and anatomy, you cure poison when you heal.
• At 80 in both, you can resurrect ghosts.
• Healing criminals and murderers now applies a criminal flag to the healer.
• A lengthy delay applies after healing.
• The above apply also to the Veterinary skill, where applicable
• You can no longer drink potions when you hve bows or crossbows equipped, or indeed any other two-handed weapon. You can still do it if you have one hand free.
• Getting poisoned when hitting a creature, rather than when it hits you, should be fixed.

10/1/98
• The poisoning skill is fixed. Difficulty in making more powerful poisons will now work correctly. Many thanks to the players who wrote in with exact details of this problem.

Nov 10 1998 12:24AM
The healing skill now advances properly, including increased difficulty for curing poison and resurrecting, so that healers with a skill higher than 93 should now be able to advance by resurrecting people.


Treasure maps and more! Jan 19 1999 3:05PM
• Poisoning is difficulty based. This means, as you get more skilled, you will need to use more powerful potions to increase your skill.
• There is no strong dose message. You either fail or succeed. The dose is based on the strength of the potion used. I.E. if you succeed in putting a deadly poison on a blade, the blade will have a deadly poison dosage.
• If you fail, there's a chance that you will poison yourself. The poison will be slightly less strong than the dosage you were attempting to use.
Client Patch Feb 23 1999 2:32PM
• Poisonous creatures should start poisoning at the correct frequency again.


Thieves Guild, new skills, and more Feb 24 1999 1:06PM
Creatures and NPCs
• You can no longer avoid a deadlier poison by taking a milder one, and getting hit by deadlier poison when already affected by a milder one will supercede the weaker poison.
New tinkering menu, pets, auto-stacking, and more. May 25 1999 9:41AM CST
Healing
• Healing delays have been adjusted:
o Healing someone else now takes 5 seconds. Healing yourself still takes 15 seconds.
o Curing poison on someone else now takes 6 seconds. Curing it on yourself still takes 18 seconds.
o The delay for resurrecting with the healing skill is now ten seconds.
Other
• Attackers will now receive a message when their poisoned weapon poisons a victim.
• The chance of monsters poisoning you when they hit has been tweaked down.


Mini-Update Sep 1 1999 7:36PM CST
• "Young" players will not be able to poison another player with a poisoned weapon.


Veterinary and Healing Changes Nov 23 1999 2:16PM CST
• The Healing and Veterinary skills are now difficulty based when attempting to cure poison. The higher the level of poison, the more difficult it will be to cure it.

Then the UO:R Changes came including corosion, requirement for skill for use, no heal while poisoned and a cure formula change that nerfed down greater cure.

[Kraarug]

About the time line...

The page I refer to:

http://web.archive.org/web/199910182028 ... ctic1.html

Is dated August 2008 and is listed on the Alchemy Page of Stratics by those who were experts in the field at the time.

This is where I think there is room for some type of change.

Perhaps Derrick is right, maybe the difference is in when the remaining HPs are calculated.

I still think that perhaps there may be room for a 3 second tick because this data in that table came from somewhere and dated at a time when the patch notes say a new system went into effect.

[Hicha]

Ninja patch is no longer ninja. Good post, kraarug.

"Attackers will now receive a message when their poisoned weapon poisons a victim."

Would like to see that implemented as well.

[Ronk]

About the time line...

The page I refer to:

http://web.archive.org/web/199910182028 ... ctic1.html

Is dated August 2008 and is listed on the Alchemy Page of Stratics by those who were experts in the field at the time.

Obviously you mean August 1998, not 2008. But anyone can see that

I do find it interesting that this page also says greater str/agil potions gave +20. Though it says +20 max hp and +20 max stamina...not +20 str and +20 agil. Of course, the little notes beside note that damage and speed also increase which seems to imply they did increase str/dex. So perhaps its poorly worded.

Good to know there actually was a changed patch between the demo and the T2A we remember. Much like it was with the katana vs kryss debate, it may be worthwhile to find every poisoning change prior, during, and after T2A and track them.

I also find Derricks comment interesting. Is that to say that if you had full health when you were poisoned and got the max 40% 'roll' (assuming that was correct)...that it would do 40 damage per tick and not get recalculated? This certainly seems more toward what I remember as I don't recall poison hurting less as a person got lower health.

[Kraarug]

Another idea: this may boil down to both when and how the remaining HP ticks are calculated (every other tick) and a 2500 ms timer 'tick' like funtion the weapon system worked on.

3 "seconds" in UO math would have been counted in two 'ticks' of 2500 ms resulting in 5 real world seconds.

EDIT: I just did the math and found that even alternating the calculation of damage based remaining HPs, with a flat 12.5% base damage results in alternating values of 12.5% to 14.29%.

It would also take, if no healing took place, 160 seconds to get to <1hp rather than 170 seconds.

Maybe there's something else.

[Finesse]

the reason you would lose stamina is surely because of the poison damage just like from normal damage

[Finesse]

I also dont understand why we consider demo code as how it was in t2a the pvp system got completely revamped in t2a thus the code from the demo becomes void as it works on the old pvp system?