Events...Accuracy vs. Policy

[BlackFoot]

no, not really, i have been debating about the need for gold sinks for a year and its important peopel udnerstand the difference.

[Braden]

Gold sinks are only one solution. Other economic controls might be required in the future.

[Sandro]

neon hair dye vendor @ 500k / layer (like OSI introduced beginning of UO:R) is / was the best gold sink

also

what happened to the variety dealer? i thought that npc was created as a gold sink too..

[Corbin]

Neons were one of the reasons I quit EA shards. Ugly as hell if you ask me.

[Brules]

My argument vs the automated event system is the frequency of it. I fully understand why it is in place, but I feel the frequency is waaaay too high and like others have said prime time is a bad time to have them.

If the sole staff justification for having them is due to staffing levels and not having the resources OSI had to devote to a shard, they I call a little bull on that line of thinking. Back on OSI shards, events held/created by staff were few and far between. Staff never ever hosted 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, CTF, last man standing events EVER. Beyond the occasional town invasion, meteor landing, epic style events, staff left it up to the players to create their own fun.

All of the "pvp" events were always set up, run and maintained by players. Yes, staff would put in place dueling arenas etc to help facilitate them, but never actually ran them.

I feel that here on UOSA, the automatic system actually harms in game hosted events, as most people dont want to mess with it when it is done far better with 0 risk of interference by the tourneymatic v4.51 tourney system.

Everyone clammors for era accuracy, but yet we will never see things like this happen here as long as the man runs them for us:

http://www.wtfman.com/oldjov/stories/nhawk12.htm

http://www.wtfman.com/oldjov/stories/nhawk10.htm

Edit - NVM just saw the events got scaled back mucho.....nice!

[Biohazard]

http://www.wtfman.com/oldjov/stories/nhawk12.htm

http://www.wtfman.com/oldjov/stories/nhawk10.htm

Those stories make me sad if only there were a time machine...

[Faust]

@Faust

The simple fact that OSI may have had varying events across different shards is a nonsense argument and you know it. I don't remember much of T2A, but I doubt they had their staff running ~5+ events a day. As for the "policy" argument, I'll gladly concede that the current events are a policy issue and not a mechanical one if you concede that an automated lottery that cost only 100 gold and gave someone a neon ridable llama is also a policy issue. By that logic, could an increased Balron spawn be a policy issue? After all, just like events, it's introducing items and action into the world on a regular basis. Where do mechanics end and policies begin? It's a fine line, and you seem to have an askew vision of it.

Did you not bother reading my previous statement early on in this thread?

Tweaking a Balron spawn would be mechanical since that spawn existed universally on all shards, where as events did not.

Mechanical accuracy ends at the point when you cannot mimic the code from one shard to the next and that is exactly when policy starts.

Again, you cannot replicate something that wasn't universal on each shard or it would be inaccurate. One way or the other it's inaccurate no matter what happens.

- Replicate events from one production server(unless you name it UO Second Age: <insert shard for replication here>) or for each production shard, inaccurate.
- Don't replicate any events, still inaccurate.
- Produce your own events, guess what.. still inaccurate.

No matter what direction you take there will never be a possibility to re-create shard events for the era as a whole. This is much like trying to replicate an individual's social experience, something that isn't possible unless you warp yourself back in time some how.

Policy is a whole different issue from mechanical accuracy. If the staff wants to throw in a special multi-neon hued ridable llama that stays with you forever, they can. However, someone has the right to argue their opinion if they don't agree with this notion and there is no doubt in my mind that the staff would listen with an open mind. The same goes for events in this situation since it's policy.

[benny-]

Again, you're doing nothing but trying to pick apart the issue and better define it into your own views of what you consider to qualify as accuracy.

This notion that anything that wasn't shared amongst every production server justifies completely custom systems here is a huge stretch.

Let's see here....

Unique items existed on every production server. Each production server had different items, thus it'd be impossible to truly replicate any one. We can have any items we want here. Because our staff here do not have the time to manually create said items and are not paid like on the production server we'll set up a system to generate these.

Ogres should drop lightsabers.

Era accurate.

Obviously when you over examine and try to categorize where issues fall, all whilst ignoring blatant differences, you can justify anything you want and still claim accuracy.

The truth is, no production server ever had CTF, Bagball, Double Dom, or the like. Saying that there was an orc invasion on Atlantic whereas Chessy had a story involving harpies does not justify a system in place to routinely generate and run a game of CTF.

This is obviously a huge leap.

No one is trying to argue this but you and a select few players, while staff here have stated time and time again that they acknowledge that the event system here is in fact inaccurate.

Give it up.

[Faust]

Ogres should drop lightsabers.

Era accurate.

False, this would not be era accurate if the code for Ogre loot was predetermined in this fashion since it would conflict with the original game mechanics that are universally the same for every OSI production shard. However, if a GM were to place this on an ogre for some purpose it wouldn't be the same. A staff member could put a 'lightsaber' on a corpse at any given point if he chose too. The same could be predetermined if and only if the situation was based on an event that allowed such a situation to take place. The difference with the two are quite obvious. The events eventually end returning the state back to normal, where as if it was predetermined in the code it would be inaccurate. The policy surrounding this issue can be debated on ethical principles all you want though. Era accuracy wouldn't be a just reason to argue it under any circumstances.

The truth is, no production server ever had CTF, Bagball, Double Dom, or the like. Saying that there was an orc invasion on Atlantic whereas Chessy had a story involving harpies does not justify a system in place to routinely generate and run a game of CTF.

This is obviously a huge leap.

What does the type of events have to do with mechanical accuracy again? Are you the judge of all judges to decide what event is accurate or not? Who or what should make this decision to begin with here? Staff? Joe? You? Me? Everyone? Ultima Lore? Please explain this.. because it sure sounds like you are making this decision on what is an accurate event or not. If OSI wanted to run one of these special events they sure as hell could do so if they wanted too. The events varied from one shard to the next and until you can tell me how it's possible replicate something that isn't universally possible to reproduce.. this fact will still remain that this isn't mechanical accuracy no matter who wants to argue this.

[benny-]

The point is...no production server ever had any of these.

Again, saying that because there were differences in events between all production servers therefore we can have something here that never existed during any portion of T2A, on any server during T2A, as part of a completely custom system is a huge stretch.

And again, the shard here does not support your argument of this being a policy decision. The shard's website states, as do the staff here that they admit the events here are not accurate.

So take your lightsabers and go scream "this is a policy decision!" some more. The truth is, no one else but you is trying to support that weak argument.

If you want to argue why the events benefit the server, how they're fun, or popular, be my guest...those are actually valid points. But as it is, trying to argue that a system to run a game of Capture the Flag for you in Trammel is in fact era accurate is nonsense.

[Faust]

If you want to argue why the events benefit the server, how they're fun, or popular, be my guest...those are actually valid points. But as it is, trying to argue that a system to run a game of Capture the Flag for you in Trammel is in fact era accurate is nonsense.

Here in lies your problem son...

Where has there been any official statement on my part that events are era accurate? My argument has been the same since this issue has been raised from day one... YOU CANNOT ARGUE ERA ACCURACY WHEN IT COMES TO EVENTS. Hope that sink in this time around son.

This is a very simple argument on my part. There is no point in arguing era accuracy because as my numerous multiple posts has stated in the past... this is a policy issue, not era accuracy. The system is inaccurate NO MATTER WHAT IS PUT IN PLACE for the countless time. When you have a system put in place that cannot be replicated under any conditions it turns into a policy decision instead of mechanical accuracy. Again, argue how trammel events are not right ALL YOU WANT here. I don't give a crap at all about this and you have every reason to argue this point. However, stop the argument in regard to era accuracy since this the system that is put in place will NOT be era accurate no matter what conditons are met(this about the 12th time now?).

- Replicating events from one production server is not era accurate.
- Replicating all events from every production server is still not era accurate
- Producing your own custom events(UOSA) is not era accurate.
- Having abolustely no events is STILL NOT era accurate.

Hopefully this list that has been posted well over 5-6 times now will turn on a switch that makes you realize that the current UOSA system has been on it the entire time...

THE ONLY WAY ERA ACCURACY CAN BE MADE INTO AN ARGUMENT FOR EVENTS IS IF WE WERE REPLICATING ONE PARTICULAR SHARD.

[Pirul]

The point is...no production server ever had any of these.

Again, saying that because there were differences in events between all production servers therefore we can have something here that never existed during any portion of T2A, on any server during T2A, as part of a completely custom system is a huge stretch.

And again, the shard here does not support your argument of this being a policy decision. The shard's website states, as do the staff here that they admit the events here are not accurate.

So take your lightsabers and go scream "this is a policy decision!" some more. The truth is, no one else but you is trying to support that weak argument.

If you want to argue why the events benefit the server, how they're fun, or popular, be my guest...those are actually valid points. But as it is, trying to argue that a system to run a game of Capture the Flag for you in Trammel is in fact era accurate is nonsense.

Prezactly!!

[BlackFoot]

hes right that you cant argue them from an actual mechanical accuracy point...(aside from the automated nature of them built into the system)

all you can argue is that they arent very t2aeyey in feel

item bless deeds and unlimited furny tubs, no special dye tubs - these things arent very t2aeyey either but could be considered an accurate mechanic for the era?

[Brules]

In the era, there were not automated event systems in a trammel like controled environment. Name one time on any server that GM's ran any PvP type tournement in a controlled no grief environment that rewarded players with items of tremendous value that could be traded in for rares/uniques. Never.

Thats what I call not era accurate. Son.

[Faust]

hes right that you cant argue them from an actual mechanical accuracy point...(aside from the automated nature of them built into the system)

Exactly, but I would beg to differ on the automated portion of it since events did in fact have automation to a degree in '99. Since it's not a replication process for mechanical accuracy the frequency and the way they are handled is quite irrelevant to be honest. This does not necessarily mean it's right or have a 't2a feel' to the policy decision.

item bless deeds and unlimited furny tubs, no special dye tubs - these things arent very t2aeyey either but could be considered an accurate mechanic for the era?

The tubs function like they did in era and that is all that really matters. The way they are distributed has no meaning since staff could pass them out if and however they wanted too. However, again... this comes down to 'is this right or t2a like"?

Please object or argue this all you want.. a person has the right to in my opinion.

Not era accurate. Son.

Please read the rest of the discussion.. my arguments are not based on era accuracy. The system is and will be inaccurate under any circumstances. This is a well known fact and the reason they don't fall into the realm of era accuracy and instead into policy decision making.

- Replicating events from one production server is not era accurate.
- Replicating all events from every production server is still not era accurate
- Producing your own custom events(UOSA) is not era accurate.
- Having abolustely no events is STILL NOT era accurate.