I WON I QUIT I GIVING UOSA A BILLION GOLD IDOC PARTY EVENT

[Light Shade]

(1) This isn't a court of law.
(2) This isn't even a democracy, it's a monarchy and Derrick is King.
(3) Agreeing to a deal IN REAL LIFE does not constitute an IN GAME AGREEMENT, regardless of it went through or not.

heh, Pirul, we're thinking too much alike here.

P.S. Let's put this in Trash Talk, so we can really tell everyone what we think.

[Kadull]

No it's not. It's like soliciting a prostitute. And yes, he did solicit.

Yea, minus that pesky little detail of never following through with the illegal aspect of it.

[Wil]

I can't wrap my mind around people paying real life money for rares on this shard.

What's to wrap your head around? You want rare X. It will take you Y dollars or Z hours of activity to get it. You go to work in the morning and earn $A per hour. Y/A ?= Z

Legally speaking, Derrick has to insist on no real money transactions. If he didn't then in-game assets would take on a real money value and he'd run afoul of gambling laws.

But were it allowed, the time-value proposition for buying rares with real money is not a hard one to make. Assuming you want those particular pixels enough to spend grinding time to get them.

This is why free-to-play, pay-to-win actually turns a profit for some of the companies which do it. Some people have time, some have money. The ones with money buy the pay-to-win components and trade for the special dingus they want with the folks who have time to go get one. As long as you can't convert in-game assets back to IRL cash, you don't run afoul of the law.

Consider what would happen if you had to have a special blessed gem in your backpack in order to cast circle 7 and 8 spells. "You need a power gem to cast that." No other change to the game mechanics. The gem breaks 1 real time month after it's first "activated." Blessed item so you can't loot or steal it. You can trade with other players to get one, win one in a contest or buy them on the web site for $5 each.

What would happen on the in-game trading market with respect to those gems?

(not advocating any of this -- just suggesting it as a thought experiment)

Regards,
Wil

[Capitalist]

No it's not. It's like soliciting a prostitute. And yes, he did solicit.

Yea, minus that pesky little detail of never following through with the illegal aspect of it.

Except he fucked the hooker and then didn't pay up. Double scumbag! Reward level: Ban.

[Light Shade]

No it's not. It's like soliciting a prostitute. And yes, he did solicit.

Yea, minus that pesky little detail of never following through with the illegal aspect of it.

Except he fucked the hooker and then didn't pay up. Double scumbag! Reward level: Ban.

At least someone here understands simple logic.

[Kadull]

No it's not. It's like soliciting a prostitute. And yes, he did solicit.

Yea, minus that pesky little detail of never following through with the illegal aspect of it.

Except he fucked the hooker and then didn't pay up. Double scumbag! Reward level: Ban.

Which means everything was kept in game, and thus, legal.

[Elk Eater]

No it's not. It's like soliciting a prostitute. And yes, he did solicit.

Yea, minus that pesky little detail of never following through with the illegal aspect of it.

Except he fucked the hooker and then didn't pay up. Double scumbag! Reward level: Ban.

Which means everything was kept in game, and thus, legal.

Except the solicitation is against the rules, and thus, not legal.

[Wil]

No it's not. It's like soliciting a prostitute. And yes, he did solicit.

Yea, minus that pesky little detail of never following through with the illegal aspect of it.

Solicitation is tied to prostitution. It's in place so that the undercover officer can arrest you as soon as you pull out your billfold without having to wait until they had enough to nail you on conspiracy.

A better choice of comparison to the law would be conspiracy. If the information in the proceeding posts is correct, CW conspired wit Sebben to trade in-game assets for IRL greenbacks. That he didn't fully follow through makes no difference: he agreed to do it and took an affirmative action in furtherance of that agreement, namely accepting the in-game assets.

[Kadull]

No it's not. It's like soliciting a prostitute. And yes, he did solicit.

Yea, minus that pesky little detail of never following through with the illegal aspect of it.

Except he fucked the hooker and then didn't pay up. Double scumbag! Reward level: Ban.

At least someone here understands simple logic.

Please do not refer to a completely nonequivalent analogy as "logic."

[Budner]

I can't wrap my mind around people paying real life money for rares on this shard.

Legally speaking, Derrick has to insist on no real money transactions. If he didn't then in-game assets would take on a real money value and he'd run afoul of gambling laws.

False.

[Light Shade]

Please do not refer to a completely nonequivalent analogy as "logic."

Kadull, you're pissing into the wind of logic. I hope your "logic" keeps you warm.

P.S. I'll do as I please, as I always have.

[Kadull]

No it's not. It's like soliciting a prostitute. And yes, he did solicit.

Yea, minus that pesky little detail of never following through with the illegal aspect of it.

Solicitation is tied to prostitution. It's in place so that the undercover officer can arrest you as soon as you pull out your billfold without having to wait until they had enough to nail you on conspiracy.

A better choice of comparison to the law would be conspiracy. If the information in the proceeding posts is correct, CW conspired wit Sebben to trade in-game assets for IRL greenbacks. That he didn't fully follow through makes no difference: he agreed to do it and took an affirmative action in furtherance of that agreement, namely accepting the in-game assets.

The difference here is that prostitution is illegal in general. Selling/buying in game wares is not. Yes, paying RL money for them is, but he didn't do that, now did he? You can not compare this to prostitution, because buying/selling wares in game (which is all that transpired) is not illegal.... This makes your analogy a false equivalence.

The only truth that's been spoken here is that ultimately this isn't a democracy. This is a free shard, which means it's the owners rules and his call, and that's that. However, respectfully, these decisions seem extremely rash and apathetic to me.... People work hard for this stuff, and people need cash IRL...

I stand by my notion that not many of you would turn down $6,000.00 USD for your pixels if you had the opportunity... And, although fewer, still not many of you would turn down a chance for 6 grand worth of in game items, either...

[Menkaure]

Kadull,
Then your saying I can go up to anyone in this game via irc/skype or even in game text and tell them "Excuse me Kadull? I will offer you $500 for your rares and sandals" You then reply "Ok, $500 usd" Then we talk for a few hours about the transaction and again talking all about RL money, I give you my paypal info you give me your email etc etc, the time comes to transfer and I tell you, you must transfer me the items before I give you the money. You do so, then I go and get a GM before transferring my cash to you.
The law breaking isnt the transaction, the law breaking is the actual negotiation of the transaction. Cave offered RL money, in a VERY REAL negotiation for Sebbens rares. Thus, this is illegal as per UOSA rules, whether received or not, is irrelevant.
Faith restored.

[Kadull]

Kadull,
Then your saying I can go up to anyone in this game via irc/skype or even in game text and tell them "Excuse me Kadull? I will offer you $500 for your rares and sandals" You then reply "Ok, $500 usd" Then we talk for a few hours about the transaction and again talking all about RL money, I give you my paypal info you give me your email etc etc, the time comes to transfer and I tell you, you must transfer me the items before I give you the money. You do so, then I go and get a GM before transferring my cash to you.
The law breaking isnt the transaction, the law breaking is the actual negotiation of the transaction. Cave offered RL money, in a VERY REAL negotiation for Sebbens rares. Thus, this is illegal as per UOSA rules, whether received or not, is irrelevant.
Faith restored.

I think what you're trying to say is that the rules state that the offense begins at solicitation, rather than the transaction itself. If that's true, then, well, that's that...

I would still say that I personally find the decision to ban them permanently to be a bit rash.... I would personally only ban them for a week or two, but now we enter the realm of subjectivity.

[Wil]

A better choice of comparison to the law would be conspiracy. If the information in the proceeding posts is correct, CW conspired wit Sebben to trade in-game assets for IRL greenbacks. That he didn't fully follow through makes no difference: he agreed to do it and took an affirmative action in furtherance of that agreement, namely accepting the in-game assets.

The difference here is that prostitution is illegal in general. Selling/buying in game wares is not. Yes, paying RL money for them is, but he didn't do that, now did he?

He agreed to and then he did an overt act consistent with that agreement. That's conspiracy. You don't have to actually do the criminal act. Google it if you don't believe me.

I stand by my notion that not many of you would turn down $6,000.00 USD for your pixels if you had the opportunity... And, although fewer, still not many of you would turn down a chance for 6 grand worth of in game items, either...

I would surely turn down 6,000 nominal dollars. I don't know what I'd do with greenbacks in hand, but the mere promise of $6k would peg my scam-meter in to the red zone no matter who made it.