The Definition of Unattended Resource Gathering

[venox]

hey cletus you all about how much a PvM can make.
if you make so much doing that, im sure you can buy ligitimatelly mined ingots at 8-9gp per.

[cletus]

but to say it doesnt affact them is false.
and yes it does ruin any sort of competitive market for ingots.

There is no competitive market for ingots. It is basically a oligopoly controlled by a few suppliers of ingots that lose interest fairly quickly. There is always a demand and imo vlast is just filling that demand better than most players have.

[noxmonk]

Because the point is that macro miners are beneficial to the economy for new players and the only reason this is an issue is that established players who don't buy the ingots anyways are overreacting about nothing.

This is infact, very, very wrong. A new player usually will usually start to do a few things, mining is one of them, lumberjacking another, and those who already have the intent to PvM, go straight for their bard it seems.

2 out of 3 of those are affected negatively by macrominers, macrominers ONLY help established players because no new player will have 150k to GM their blacksmithing. Not only that; you'll almost never see a return from blacksmithing because most established players seem to have one on their accounts, or know someone who has one and will do it for the price of ingots. It helps the players after some time gold gathering, sure. Mid-range definitely. But new? It makes their time invested worth significantly less than someones time not invested.

I do agree with you on PvM though, the spawns seem to be faster than OSI and since the populations are lower more plentiful, meaning more influx to those who go PvM. Crafting, resourcing was the absolute best way to make money on OSI in T2A. No question about it. The next closest was PvP, because you could take everyones stuff and resell it if you had a good PvP spot and didn't suck. PvM was on the bottom of the list.

Either way, on the subject of unattended resource gathering which is where the thread started, it still shouldn't be allowed.

[e1] I should note that house brokering would have been the most profitable on OSI. That doesn't apply as much here because of total land mass available. But, for accuracy sake. There it is.

[venox]

but to say it doesnt affact them is false.
and yes it does ruin any sort of competitive market for ingots.

There is no competitive market for ingots. It is basically a oligopoly controlled by a few suppliers of ingots that lose interest fairly quickly. There is always a demand and imo vlast is just filling that demand better than most players have.

exactly there is NO COMPETITION
if there is a demand for ingots, players will pay more for them and players will then be encouraged to mine them.
its called economies of scale.

[tekai]

PvMers cause inflation because they basically just farm gold all day long for no real purpose other than to get a big house and then outbid each other for rares while coming onto the forums complaining and looking down their nose at people who take a different route towards getting their friends and guild a step up like Vlast has done.

What in the world is wrong with that? I'm exactly the kind of person your talking about and that is how I like to play. forgive me if you like making armor, I buy plenty of it. Killing monsters and making your own stamp on the server is a big part of this game.

on a side note, trading bloody bandage for other daily rares (rofl)

[tekai]

I do agree with you on PvM though, the spawns seem to be faster than OSI and since the populations are lower more plentiful, meaning more influx to those who go PvM. Crafting, resourcing was the absolute best way to make money on OSI in T2A. No question about it. The next closest was PvP, because you could take everyones stuff and resell it if you had a good PvP spot and didn't suck. PvM was on the bottom of the list.

This is not true, PvM was always tops, My tamer made so much money it was silly. and mobs respawned about the same as they do here. Blood ellys' lich lords and cove dragons accually spawn slower here. I have a screenshot of myself and a friend killing lichlords. there must have been 26+ corpses, as soon as it died it would repop, same with the dragons.

and no matter the population, a tamer would scare away most red non ganksquads, and most tamers like me would kill an innocent to take over a camp. only 8 hours right?

anyway you can not de-merrit pvm, as it is one of the main focus of the game.

[Vlastslav]

FYI I just sold 22k ingots for the first time in 3, THREE weeks. Yah im destroying the market, the economy, and newbs hoping of making money.

[venox]

if you want to talk about the effacts of PvM, thats another issue for another thread.
yes it makes more that ingots. but it doesnt make ingots...and it requires attendance.

im glad that you can see vlas how the demand for ingots is NOT even keeping up with your mass supply.

[Vlastslav]

Who said I have a mass supply?

[RoadKill]

Who said I have a mass supply?

If I remember correctly, I remember hearing from you either in IRC, or the forums, that you had like 300k ingots. Unless you meant 300k worth of ingots

[venox]

lol.
anyway this is going off issue again. more spin is getting created.
what is at issue is as hemporer has stated in the forum title:
The Definition of Unattended Resource Gathering.

[Hemperor]

Didn't bother reading all those posts concerning the same thing...You are really derailing this post, to bring in PvM is just retarded. You clearly have missed the point of this topic, claiming this is BENEFICIAL to the shard really shows that you have no true clue how dense UO really is, it goes beyond PvP. This hurts the crafting scene, gold scene and the number one way newbies can make money.

There has always been a number of newbs at any given time getting resources, it's the afk macroers making millions off this that put them out of business by exploiting the system.

[Stormsong]

As I understand it, the rule against unattended harvesting is designed to keep the available level of resources at a stable moderate level. The interpretation of the rule that sees harvesting as attended if the player is actively playing another account helps. At least it is not 7/24 harvesting. However in today’s closed economy (no place for gold to go) high levels of resources will have a strong negative impact.

Players who state that they are harvesting within the rules and who still amass huge levels of resources are proving that this interpretation still results in huge stocks of resources. These high returns flood the market and drive down raw and finished goods values. But there is a hard bottom established by the NPC vendors that prevents prices from dropping too far. This means that there will still be a high return on the minimum time investment.

The producer based economy in UO has a big danger of developing a huge gold excess. (In another topic it could be discussed that PvM harvesting of wealth has the same effect.) This results in deflation for produced goods and inflation for rare goods.

There are only a few outlets that will truly absorb the gold. These are rares and housing.
Control of this closed economy either requires methods of cutting back on the gold produced or the introduction of gold sinks beyond those existing in the game.

To cut back requires finding ways to limit harvesting such as more stringent rules defining “Unattended Harvesting”, lower returns for expended time or much slower skill gains. If that route is not taken then sufficient gold sinks must be added to the game to drain off these excesses of gold.

Without one or the other a skewed and silly economy is the only result. A few players will gain the ability to cause huge movements in the markets and will own most of the limited items in the game.

Interactive harvesting keeps output as a moderate level that keeps the value of resources and therefore products at a sustainable level.

[RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR]

As I understand it, the rule against unattended harvesting is designed to keep the available level of resources at a stable moderate level. The interpretation of the rule that sees harvesting as attended if the player is actively playing another account helps. At least it is not 7/24 harvesting. However in today’s closed economy (no place for gold to go) high levels of resources will have a strong negative impact.

Players who state that they are harvesting within the rules and who still amass huge levels of resources are proving that this interpretation still results in huge stocks of resources. These high returns flood the market and drive down raw and finished goods values. But there is a hard bottom established by the NPC vendors that prevents prices from dropping too far. This means that there will still be a high return on the minimum time investment.

The producer based economy in UO has a big danger of developing a huge gold excess. (In another topic it could be discussed that PvM harvesting of wealth has the same effect.) This results in deflation for produced goods and inflation for rare goods.

There are only a few outlets that will truly absorb the gold. These are rares and housing.
Control of this closed economy either requires methods of cutting back on the gold produced or the introduction of gold sinks beyond those existing in the game.

To cut back requires finding ways to limit harvesting such as more stringent rules defining “Unattended Harvesting”, lower returns for expended time or much slower skill gains. If that route is not taken then sufficient gold sinks must be added to the game to drain off these excesses of gold.

Without one or the other a skewed and silly economy is the only result. A few players will gain the ability to cause huge movements in the markets and will own most of the limited items in the game.

Interactive harvesting keeps output as a moderate level that keeps the value of resources and therefore products at a sustainable level.

I don't believe in gold sinks because people only put into them from there excess, I could see something like increasing the decay rate on a house by 1 day per 100,000 gold, that would work because it is truly helpful without interfering with gameplay to much, except that it is inaccurate, I think the only way to bring down the economy is to wipe it every once in a wile, as for every 10gp someone makes only 1 of those gps will go into a sink, especially if it is something completely unnecessary.

[venox]

***bump***
all arguments that are in favour of unattended gathering have been extinguished.
yet the issue remains.