Equipping while casting

[Kraarug]

Hrm, quite like you making accusations that the demo isn't true for anything?

I made an interesting discovery last night. Effective after
the last patch, you can wield a weapon when casting targetable spells
as the code checks for weapons when clicking with the targeting
cursor, and not while casting. So, cast the spell while having your
paperdoll open, drag you weapon to your bag with the targeting cursor,
shoot the spell and put your weapon back.

Note that you can also leave the cursor in the targetting mode
and play for ages with it. It's good for tight situations such as
training with wisps where you can die in a second if you don't have
reactive armor on.

Hmmm, very interesting.

Darn, that inaccurate demo!

Faust,

I don't think you'll find many people say that the Demo isn't accurate to PRE T2A, but it's NOT T2A.

Your post is dated Jan 1998, the demo is dated July 1998: That's all PRE T2A.

T2A started in October 1998 and there are many many undocumented differences between the July and October 1998.

I do wish we had an accurate T2A Demo, that would be just great but it's Pre-T2A and there's many differences.

[Kraarug]

..Wrestling is not completely negated due to this old game mechanic. Again, there is suppose to be no disrupt delay and when someone is interrupted during this process it takes the remainder of the action delay before you can unequip and cast another spell. The action delay needs to be fixed for this too. Also, there is evidence to suggest that the equip delay can be bypassed in the new swing timer and equipping a weapon in this manner would severely render a weapon useless in most cases if this is true since the delay would simply restart.

The purpose of wrestling for a tank mage is to decrease the chance of getting hit while casting.

If you were a GM Wrestler against a GM Fencer, your chance was 50% of getting hit while casting if the fencer swung.

So, are you saying that in your theory that arming a weapon while casting would NOT make a weapon skill check but revert to wrestling?

That doesn't make much sense.

[Faust]

I don't remember that, but that's because I didn't play the demo.

If it's an ability that the demo allows then it should stand as proof that the demo is flawed.

Well you have been trying to argue "credibility" this entire time when you were in fact wrong. Second, you are trying to make a claim of "confusion" when you are in fact the one that is confused. Third, we have substantial proof that this existed before and up to July '98 without a doubt and no proof that it was ever removed until the UOR publish.

[Kraarug]

I don't remember that, but that's because I didn't play the demo.

If it's an ability that the demo allows then it should stand as proof that the demo is flawed.

Well you have been trying to argue "credibility" this entire time when you were in fact wrong. Second, you are trying to make a claim of "confusion" when you are in fact the one that is confused. Third, we have substantial proof that this existed before and up to July '98 without a doubt and no proof that it was ever removed until the UOR publish.

You take quotes out of context and from other threads that should probably remain in those special threads. I suggest you remove that quote.

The context of that statement is:

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If the demo allows arming while casting then it iis flawed as a T2A copy.

It is accurate to Pre T2A UO.

It shows it is not a T2A era source.

Now, please address the concern about the weapon check Faust while being struck during casting. Let's stick to the mechanical rather than the rhetorical arguments here.

[Kraarug]

Faust, I'm goign to post the entire passages of what you patched together to make a quote from me.

I think this speaks volumes to your creditability, your method of evidence handling, editing and tactics.

You're right Mikel. This is why no one trained wrestling in 1999.

You just had to arm your katana and risk getting hit between casts without a weapon for 1 confirmed second.

I don't remember that, but that's because I didn't play the demo.

You should think about throwing a "Toggle: War Mode" into your macro though so that you can save your katana's durability from auto defend mishaps.

Faust, in T2A you could never arm a weapon and continue to cast.

As I've explained, if you had a hally in your hand while you were casting and you swung, you would be using your swordsmanship skill. That would not simply be the ability to not have your spell interrupted by a peskey arming technicality, it would be the abilty to use a weapon while casting and that never occured on a production shard. If it's an ability that the demo allows then it should stand as proof that the demo is flawed.

If one was able to use a sword while casting there would be no reason to have trained wrestling. Why train wrestling for the split second you would not have a weapon? It makes no since and certainly was not the case in 1999.

It's as simple as that. Res ipsa loquitur

Hell, why even make players disarm at all? For show?

Maybe you have career prospects with Fox News but slicing and dicing posts made days apart which only confirm what I've been saying this whole time to contort to your purposes is cheap, dirty and lacks creditability and taste.

It should show to others your tactics and loose play with the facts.

[Faust]

Wait, you haven't been rebutting the demo from day one since it first was used as a source here?

I had no idea you just started denying it recently since picking apart your credentials on this issue...

My bad, son.

[Hemperor]

Kraarug, you are essentially saying "ignore the demo". We know how something functioned at a certain point in UO, and we have NO (zero) reason currently to believe that it changed afterwards. This shard wasn't built off memories, but of course it would be nice to get a few more sources of info to make this conclusive.

[Kraarug]

What I am saying is that there is enough doubt to do zero changes. You have no proof other than a demo that wasn't even T2A. And that's not proof to make a change, especially the change being suggested which certainly would not result in any known T2A scenarios.


It's not era accurate and should not be represented as such.

[MatronDeWinter]

From another thread..

Sorry, if you can't seem to grasp the point that was being made in my post. Why should one restriction be relaxed and the next shouldn't? Again, the rules put in place has been etched in the minds of competitive duelers for well over a decade now. There is a reason the "majority" enjoys dueling this way.

Does the majority here think that this should be implimented? I certainly do not remember it working this way.

[Faust]

Tournaments and their rulesets are a policy decision, not game mechanical accuracy.

[archaicsubrosa77]

If it was implemented that would make pvp off the hinge for any weapon using caster template. Almost everyone would be changing up skills and stats in an instant.
Of course some would keep wrestling in order to cycle out for the hally hit but it would be interesting to see what kind of changes would occur overall.

[Faust]

If the bug involving the equip delay bypass is discovered in the code no one will be equip casting as an offensive measure.

Hybrids and dexers will probably be the only templates doing it.

[Kraarug]

Faust,

I think I remember you saying you were a programer or engineer and I have to say that your choice of logic seems to confirm that.

Look at these two scenarios:

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Scenario A - Implementaiton of Arming after Casting becomes the mechanics of a shard that is suppose to emulate T2A based on a Pre-T2A demo and lack of patch notes.

Players have their weapon skill checked while casting rather than wrestling to prevent a hit from an agressive player.

Players drop their era accurate templates (Lose wrestling) for one that is based on this new rule set.

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Scenario B - The current system which coplies with predominate T2A game play and is just as equally supported by facts (or lack of them) as the scenario A remains in effect.

No change in player templates.

Wrestling is still utilized as thoroughly described in player journals.

Players play era accurate templates.

Which of these do you prefer for a T2A replication shard?

One where players run around using non era accurate templates based on reverse engineering of a non T2A demo and a very loose and shaky theory supported only by lack of patch notes?

Or the one that pretty much defines the era, is commonly accpeted, and is accurate?


I don't know about you but the idea of Nox Tank Mages with 0 wrestling just dosen't seem to jump out as "T2A" to me.

Sometimes cases are proven or disproven through their potential effects if implemented. In this case, Scenario A is way out of line of era accuracy.

Save this kind of junk for your own shard one day. Let this one remain a T2A replication please.

[nightshark]

From another thread..

Sorry, if you can't seem to grasp the point that was being made in my post. Why should one restriction be relaxed and the next shouldn't? Again, the rules put in place has been etched in the minds of competitive duelers for well over a decade now. There is a reason the "majority" enjoys dueling this way.

Does the majority here think that this should be implimented? I certainly do not remember it working this way.

I don't remember it in era either. It does seem wonky as I recall that I never thought for a second it would be a good idea to drop wrestle for anat, during era. Was always too worried about getting completely slayed by dexers. Though, I also never had UOA during T2A, which meant I had the crap delay on the UO arm macro.

[Hemperor]

What I am saying is that there is enough doubt to do zero changes. You have no proof other than a demo that wasn't even T2A. And that's not proof to make a change, especially the change being suggested which certainly would not result in any known T2A scenarios.


It's not era accurate and should not be represented as such.

I'd have to agree that there would need to be a few other sources before any changes could be considered, I was simply just backing up the demo source