Joined a week ago but considering leaving...

[BobDobbs]

Obviously you think I am wrong. I am asking you to stop being vague and point to what statement I made specifically that you think is wrong. I am not sure how I can make this any more clear to be honest, I have said it repeatedly now. Pick a statement you think is wrong, otherwise I can not offer a rebuttal and you are simply hiding behind vagueness.

Where I think you've gone wrong is your belief that UOSA claims to be a completely accurate representation of T2A era UO, when it doesn't claim that at all. It claims to be the most accurate representation of T2A era UO. UOSA can't recreate experiences, only give people the opportunity to do it themselves. I think it does that pretty well.

[Generic Player]

Except that virtually all of the attention to accuracy has been on PvP issues. PvE has been neglected or even broken intentionally to please gankers. Taming is broken in almost every conceivable way, lots of spawns have been wrong in varying ways to the point of making them useless (outside tera keep being a prime example, incredibly slow spawns in other locations being a common issue), both provoke and peacemaking are obviously wrong (and easy to fix), etc. Combined with very gank friendly policies like allowing 3 accounts, no risk macroing, exact murder counts being displayed, etc means this server only gives the opportunity to recreate a very small subset of experiences. On a server where half the people online are just macroing, and of the remaining half most are going to gank you at the first chance they get, you can't recreate very much of the UO experience at all.

[Sissypants]

Where I think you've gone wrong is your belief that UOSA claims to be a completely accurate representation of T2A era UO, when it doesn't claim that at all. It claims to be the most accurate representation of T2A era UO. UOSA can't recreate experiences, only give people the opportunity to do it themselves. I think it does that pretty well.

This isn't the first time I've seen BobDobbs say what I put in bold/underline in the above quote. There lies a good portion of the problem. People are clinging to past memory of the OSI days and placing similar expectations here.

[Generic Player]

Except that as I said, it does not give people the opportunity to recreate those experiences. Major chunks of PvE are broken or inaccurate, which combined with the pro-gank policies make PvEing largely a waste of time. This, combined with the attitude displayed here of "non-stop ganking and nothing else is how UO always was, if you don't like it it is your fault for not magically recreating what you want with the power of your mind" drives away the people that made up 90% of the general population of UO.

[Psilo]

Live for the now not the past!

[LifeForce]

Where I think you've gone wrong is your belief that UOSA claims to be a completely accurate representation of T2A era UO, when it doesn't claim that at all. It claims to be the most accurate representation of T2A era UO. UOSA can't recreate experiences, only give people the opportunity to do it themselves. I think it does that pretty well.

This isn't the first time I've seen BobDobbs say what I put in bold/underline in the above quote. There lies a good portion of the problem. People are clinging to past memory of the OSI days and placing similar expectations here.

no, i think generic player is spot on a couple of post back... uosa offers the framework in which we can recreate experience. if the framework is "broken", the player can't do much to recreate something.

one example: compared to the real t2a the risk/reward ratio for playerkillers is shifted here by policy decision. atm a pk'er that dies in statloss can immediately start to macro his skills back up with some toon from the second account while the player can jump right back into grieving action with his red-alt on the third account. so there is not much retribution for pks here and that is one of the reasons why reds are more prevalent. that is just one picky example and of course you can find others galore with impact on blues and certain templates.

oh, yeah... and i don't see a "good" solution for this problem atm.

[voodoo]

Live for the now not the past!

...says the man playing a decade old 2D game on a fan project server trying to recreate the game as it was in 1998-1999.

[Kaivan]

Except that virtually all of the attention to accuracy has been on PvP issues. PvE has been neglected or even broken intentionally to please gankers. Taming is broken in almost every conceivable way, lots of spawns have been wrong in varying ways to the point of making them useless (outside tera keep being a prime example, incredibly slow spawns in other locations being a common issue), both provoke and peacemaking are obviously wrong (and easy to fix), etc. Combined with very gank friendly policies like allowing 3 accounts, no risk macroing, exact murder counts being displayed, etc means this server only gives the opportunity to recreate a very small subset of experiences. On a server where half the people online are just macroing, and of the remaining half most are going to gank you at the first chance they get, you can't recreate very much of the UO experience at all.

If you have a concern regarding the operation of a specific skill, please review other accuracy threads on the skill, and if you feel the issues with the skill are still unresolved, then posting a thread regarding the issue in the accuracy forum would be the best course of action. We can't fix something if we aren't aware that it's broken in the first place.

[Generic Player]

Check the bugs and era accuracy forums, I have posted a bunch. There is very little communication though, so we're left wondering if issues are planned to be fixed at all, much less when. And requests for information so that we can help are met with non-answers. Take the taming requirements thread for example. I would like to go through and see which are accurate and which are not, but the wiki is not accurate. Derrick could simply post the current requirements from the code, but instead he posts "yeah the wiki is wrong just like stratics was". That is not helpful, nor does it encourage us to pitch in. Frankly as someone who has been here only a month, and has posted more bugs and era accuracies issues than many long time players I find the "report it then" response pretty insulting.

[TheEttinKing]

I didnt read these posts or even the first one but goodbye.

[Reena Dae]

If you have a concern regarding the operation of a specific skill, please review other accuracy threads on the skill, and if you feel the issues with the skill are still unresolved, then posting a thread regarding the issue in the accuracy forum would be the best course of action. We can't fix something if we aren't aware that it's broken in the first place.

I've posted lots of bugs in the bugs forum. Initially, I was hopeful that something would change. I'm not expecting a magic wand to instantly fix everything, but the lack of communication isn't reassuring. Cosmetic things (evil mage robes, etc) are nice, but I am disappointed they are placed ahead of what I consider to be critical mechanical issues.

OSI had a public list of "these are the things we are changing/addressing", something that is needed here.

[Kaivan]

Check the bugs and era accuracy forums, I have posted a bunch. There is very little communication though, so we're left wondering if issues are planned to be fixed at all, much less when. And requests for information so that we can help are met with non-answers. Take the taming requirements thread for example. I would like to go through and see which are accurate and which are not, but the wiki is not accurate. Derrick could simply post the current requirements from the code, but instead he posts "yeah the wiki is wrong just like stratics was". That is not helpful, nor does it encourage us to pitch in. Frankly as someone who has been here only a month, and has posted more bugs and era accuracies issues than many long time players I find the "report it then" response pretty insulting.

Looking at the pertinent threads that you have posted or posted in, only two of them have actually gone without a staff post in the threads. I wouldn't necessarily call that a lack of communication. As for the list of minimum taming requirements for each animal being overtly posted, I doubt that this will actually happen. No direct code for specific variables has been posted in the past and I wouldn't expect Taming to be an exception. Beyond that, if we are to take a specific list such as Reena's list for minimum taming requirements, then physically posting the numbers in use becomes irrelevant because they will be changing to reflect an existing list.

However, in the stead of your concerns, I will try to get in contact with Derrick (he is only one person with so much time), and discuss what is going to be done regarding the minimum taming requirements.

If you have a concern regarding the operation of a specific skill, please review other accuracy threads on the skill, and if you feel the issues with the skill are still unresolved, then posting a thread regarding the issue in the accuracy forum would be the best course of action. We can't fix something if we aren't aware that it's broken in the first place.

I've posted lots of bugs in the bugs forum. Initially, I was hopeful that something would change. I'm not expecting a magic wand to instantly fix everything, but the lack of communication isn't reassuring. Cosmetic things (evil mage robes, etc) are nice, but I am disappointed they are placed ahead of what I consider to be critical mechanical issues.

OSI had a public list of "these are the things we are changing/addressing", something that is needed here.

Having looked at both the suggestions and bugs forum, there is a great deal of activity from Derrick regarding bugs in the bugs forum, and Derrick spends the time to confirm that he has read and will change something to make it accurate when a thread provides fairly conclusive evidence in the suggestions forum. Beyond that, the specific issues regarding taming, and pet AI in general are something that Derrick is aware of (he even has a post at the end of page 3 of your stickied thread). While I can't guarantee anything, a full rewrite of AI behavior for most types of creatures (particularly tamed animals and non-aggressive AI) is an ideal approach to attempting to alleviate many of these issues. However, with Derrick being the only coder, and his time being as limited as it is to work on things, this may not happen soon.

Small note: The issues regarding peacemaking are a subset of a larger bug with non-aggressive creature AI at the moment. That, along with the other AI issues, can be lumped together into one large category of buggy AI.

[Reena Dae]

Having looked at both the suggestions and bugs forum, there is a great deal of activity from Derrick regarding bugs in the bugs forum, and Derrick spends the time to confirm that he has read and will change something to make it accurate when a thread provides fairly conclusive evidence in the suggestions forum. Beyond that, the specific issues regarding taming, and pet AI in general are something that Derrick is aware of (he even has a post at the end of page 3 of your stickied thread). While I can't guarantee anything, a full rewrite of AI behavior for most types of creatures (particularly tamed animals and non-aggressive AI) is an ideal approach to attempting to alleviate many of these issues. However, with Derrick being the only coder, and his time being as limited as it is to work on things, this may not happen soon.

Small note: The issues regarding peacemaking are a subset of a larger bug with non-aggressive creature AI at the moment. That, along with the other AI issues, can be lumped together into one large category of buggy AI.

I understand AI is a large task, which is why I haven't posted regarding specific issues unless it is so horribly wrong that it is actually getting me killed (nightmare attacking me point blank). Taming values are just numbers. Follow speed is just a number. I expected these to be fixed quickly, especially follow speed and how critical it is for a tamer to be able to defend themselves on this shard. Instead I see frenzied ostard dex being increased (honestly, I never believed that number was correct once I finally tamed one, but I had no way to accurately test it either way so I left it the way it was), follow being slightly adjusted (to make them not give up so easily, but not their speed), and wyrms having their flying animation back while following (which didn't exist unless they were in fly mode).

This shard is how old? A year old? Two years old? Bard is the most popular PvE profession on the shard and Provoke, one of the simplest skills in the game, doesn't work properly? Make dude A attack dude B with no agro for the bard unless they fail, and only with dude A. I find it hard to believe that is an AI issue. Even the text is wrong, and that was posted in the big screenshot thread in era accuracy months ago.

I'm patient, but only to a certain point. Derrick could ask for help, programming something as complex as a shard is a lot of work. I offered, but if I wanted to submit patches, I'd have to start with the default RunUO source.

[voodoo]

I don't know any tamer issues yet. However, you are doing noone a favor by holding back on the reports. Derrick is not omniscient and does not own a crystal ball that allows him to gaze directly into 1998. Given the sheer mass of potential inaccuracies to fix, the only sensible attitude Derrick can take is if an issue is not reported, it is not known, and if an issue is not pressed, it can be pushed behind issues that are.

Personally, I don't know most of these issues, and I haven't seen a great deal of discussion on them in the Era Accuracy or Bug Reports forum except the consolidated Tamer Bugs thread. It'd be nice if the people who PvE could start the discussions there, because you can't really expect the PvPers to do it, or at least you can't expect them to press it as hard as they do PvP matters. (as for me, Mining appears to be 100% accurate!).

[Generic Player]

Looking at the pertinent threads that you have posted or posted in, only two of them have actually gone without a staff post in the threads. I wouldn't necessarily call that a lack of communication.

Good communication is more than simply posting anything at all. It would be nice to get an actual reply, like "ok, I am adding this to my list of things to fix" so we know it is being addressed. And the list of things to be fixed should be public.

As for the list of minimum taming requirements for each animal being overtly posted, I doubt that this will actually happen. No direct code for specific variables has been posted in the past and I wouldn't expect Taming to be an exception.

Quite frankly, that is retarded. The server will never be accurate if hiding information from the people who are offering to do the needed testing is the way things will be. It takes virtually no time to grab that info, and then the wiki could be updated, and players could research inaccuracies. It is really frustrating when something as simple as changing some numbers like the taming requirements was posted weeks ago, and there's no communication about it. No, "ok this will be fixed", or "this has been fixed", or "there's no enough proof these numbers are right", it's just left hanging.

While I can't guarantee anything, a full rewrite of AI behavior for most types of creatures (particularly tamed animals and non-aggressive AI) is an ideal approach to attempting to alleviate many of these issues. However, with Derrick being the only coder, and his time being as limited as it is to work on things, this may not happen soon.

Yeah, AI is hard to get right. But the simple fixes could be done in the mean time. And *why* is Derrick the only coder, especially if he doesn't have time to do it? Put the code up and let those of us who do have time get this stuff fixed.