Blessed Items should break from damage [continued, part II]

[Robbbb]

bump let them break.........

never gonna happen...get over it already

[GuardianKnight]

Lelouche...get over something? HAHAHAHAHAHA

[FishinPro]

bump let them break.........

[Pac]

Utterly ridiculous that these items exist here. The entire so-called "purpose" of this Shard has become a joke.

Near gamebreaking exploit discovered = "Sorry, it's era accurate so it stays"
Blatantly inaccurate housing locations, blessed items, etc. = "They can stay"

[GuardianKnight]

Oh just shut up.

[Brules]

Derrick posted this in another thread in answer to my question, might help you understand their stance on this matter:

I would still like to know how era accuracy is unquestionable in this instance, yet thrown out the window for GF'd clothing/neons........it can't be both ways.

This has been addressed in other posts.
The OSI code clearly shows that indestructible clothing is possible, and other threads have suggested that items such as these may have existed. That's not the reason why they exist here, but it is a very valid counter to the accuracy concerns you're raising.

The tower/castle/keep walls thing isn't even similar to clothing destruction issue though, as it's being asked for the housing walls that something inaccurate be globally and specifically coded in clear violation of what we know, but the clothing issue was created by the intention of increasing accuracy for new clothing and simply left behind a group of items that may not be accurate (if not in terms of existence, certainly in terms of quantity), yet clothing decay and armor damage is still roughly only very similar to OSI, while the LOS code and building architecture is exactly precise to OSI as it currently stands on Second Age.

There are many mechanics on UOSA that could be made more accurate; but it's a logical fallacy that the failure or delay in fixing one mechanic necessitates breaking the accuracy of another, especially one that's completely unrelated. It would be reasonable to consider removing an accurate mechanic temporarily if an inaccurate mechanic (such as the ability to cast EV's into houses) could not be remedied immediately (which in this case we did). We did this in the case of insta-res, and it's still intended for us to find a way to fix that; but due to the client side nature of the original insta-res function, it's been challenging.

This type of argument is used again and again, but I honestly don't consider it to be a valid point of debate. A valid conclusion should be able to stand on it's own merit, and not need be supported by other unrelated results. That is to say, the chain of logic for keeping era-accurate mechanics relating to housing does not include clothing, nor does the chain of logic that resulted in the clothing include housing. They are separate issues, but it is believed the logic is consistently applied across all these points of contention.

There are valid points to be made in regards to the clothing, such as the point matron made that when we changed the katana speed it would have been more consistent for us to have left grandfathered katanas behind instead of changing all the existing ones. That point is well taken, and tbh it hadn't been considered when the change was made, and certainly should have been.

If the goal is to point out mistakes we've made in the past you should find no shortage of material; however I hope that it can be seen that over the years we have become more consistent and not less so.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The following was posted as I was composing this:

By that logic staff should grandfather already placed homes and make only new homes susceptible to the LOS bug. Most players that placed keeps/towers/castles placed them with the knowledge that they were safe places to macro.

They weren't safe though, and haven't been for years. This is only recently discovered, but it's not new, it just wasn't known to most players.

Were it the however case that this was something that was intentionally added, such as the katana speed changes, you'd have a good point to this in terms of consistency.

[Faust]

Would just like to point out for the record that OSI started retroactively correcting weapon stats around mid/late '98 after changes were made using a retroactive fixer for weapons/armor and possibly other items.

The trick for getting vendors to make items not-for-sale that are not eligible for it will be fixed. All items in vendors currently will be fixed retroactively!

A retroactive weapons fixer will adjust weapons to fit the new weapons statistics going in. This code will attempt to transfer over your old weapons and adjust them to the correct weapons scale. It will fix one-hit weapons, "prepatch" weapons with outdated damage ratings, weapons with multiply applied magical bonuses, and similar problems. However, it may not function perfectly with all particular combinations of weapon abilities. In particular, exceptional quality weapons may lose some of their capability in the adjustment.

Armor will also go through the same sort of "retroactive fix" that was recently put in for weapons. This will eliminate "pre-patch" armor with excessive bonuses.

Practice weapons will now be handled by the code that retroactively fixes weapons with non-standard abilities. Newbie weapons will automatically have newbie stats replaced on them every time they are equipped.

[GuardianKnight]

Would just like to point out for the record that OSI started retroactively correcting weapon stats around mid/late '98 after changes were made using a retroactive fixer for weapons/armor and possibly other items.

The trick for getting vendors to make items not-for-sale that are not eligible for it will be fixed. All items in vendors currently will be fixed retroactively!

A retroactive weapons fixer will adjust weapons to fit the new weapons statistics going in. This code will attempt to transfer over your old weapons and adjust them to the correct weapons scale. It will fix one-hit weapons, "prepatch" weapons with outdated damage ratings, weapons with multiply applied magical bonuses, and similar problems. However, it may not function perfectly with all particular combinations of weapon abilities. In particular, exceptional quality weapons may lose some of their capability in the adjustment.

Armor will also go through the same sort of "retroactive fix" that was recently put in for weapons. This will eliminate "pre-patch" armor with excessive bonuses.

Practice weapons will now be handled by the code that retroactively fixes weapons with non-standard abilities. Newbie weapons will automatically have newbie stats replaced on them every time they are equipped.

Time to start a new thread

[Pac]

Would just like to point out for the record that OSI started retroactively correcting weapon stats around mid/late '98 after changes were made using a retroactive fixer for weapons/armor and possibly other items.

The trick for getting vendors to make items not-for-sale that are not eligible for it will be fixed. All items in vendors currently will be fixed retroactively!

A retroactive weapons fixer will adjust weapons to fit the new weapons statistics going in. This code will attempt to transfer over your old weapons and adjust them to the correct weapons scale. It will fix one-hit weapons, "prepatch" weapons with outdated damage ratings, weapons with multiply applied magical bonuses, and similar problems. However, it may not function perfectly with all particular combinations of weapon abilities. In particular, exceptional quality weapons may lose some of their capability in the adjustment.

Armor will also go through the same sort of "retroactive fix" that was recently put in for weapons. This will eliminate "pre-patch" armor with excessive bonuses.

Practice weapons will now be handled by the code that retroactively fixes weapons with non-standard abilities. Newbie weapons will automatically have newbie stats replaced on them every time they are equipped.

Precedent has been established; proof as been presented.

They must break. There is no defensible argument to the contrary.

[Robbbb]

Would just like to point out for the record that OSI started retroactively correcting weapon stats around mid/late '98 after changes were made using a retroactive fixer for weapons/armor and possibly other items.

The trick for getting vendors to make items not-for-sale that are not eligible for it will be fixed. All items in vendors currently will be fixed retroactively!

A retroactive weapons fixer will adjust weapons to fit the new weapons statistics going in. This code will attempt to transfer over your old weapons and adjust them to the correct weapons scale. It will fix one-hit weapons, "prepatch" weapons with outdated damage ratings, weapons with multiply applied magical bonuses, and similar problems. However, it may not function perfectly with all particular combinations of weapon abilities. In particular, exceptional quality weapons may lose some of their capability in the adjustment.

Armor will also go through the same sort of "retroactive fix" that was recently put in for weapons. This will eliminate "pre-patch" armor with excessive bonuses.

Practice weapons will now be handled by the code that retroactively fixes weapons with non-standard abilities. Newbie weapons will automatically have newbie stats replaced on them every time they are equipped.

Precedent has been established; proof as been presented.

They must break. There is no defensible argument to the contrary.

Wrong. They did retro things but they also GFed things as well so all of this is means nothing.

[Loathed]

everything on UO became breakable- gf'd or not. I'm sure that's in whatever code you wanna look at in the Secondage client. Or whatever memories you wanna recall or forums posts. We shouldn't be so cruel as to hold derrick to every spoken/typed word. Derrick is very honorable and we shouldn't hold that over him. I'd love to put a event together where we all destroy something grandfathered or maybe gm's would be kind enough to change my item from grandfather status to post patch blessed item. Thoughts?

[Valhoppen]

I am not 100% sure if it was possible to break items with weapons like swords. But I am 100% items, blessed or not broke with those using macing weapons. That is why I was a macer when I was playing because I wanted to break peoples damn black sandals. Also I am sure if anyone had item blessed weapons those broke too.

[GuardianKnight]

People leave this shard with every new patch that comes. Mostly, it is the on the fence people, but once you go down this road, you'll be losing the ones that do still love it here. Once you make the shard's biggest endorsers quit, you'll not have anyone here to run events or welcome people here with aid.

I understand that people can't afford to buy GF items and they seem unobtainable, but that's not a good reason to push for something that the staff has said will stay GF'd.

[MatronDeWinter]

bump for "these items should break" with the new evidence.

[Valhoppen]

I am sure that blessed items broke. A long time ago I had a very nice pair of Dark Blue Sandals and I was a thief fighter and I have been in some wars with people with mace fighting. I needed money at that time and I sold my blessed sandals to some guy but he wasn't sure if he should by it 1.) because I was a thief and 2.) I had to I.D. it. So I did and it was worn down a bit from the battles that I fought. I understand that taking my sandals to battle is a risk and would always be a risk because it is part of the game. I always looked at blessed items as a way for items to last a little longer than they normally do, instead of something being invincible.