UO Second Age

iamreallysquall wrote:bump let them break.........

iamreallysquall wrote:bump let them break.........

Derrick wrote:

Brules wrote:I would still like to know how era accuracy is unquestionable in this instance, yet thrown out the window for GF'd clothing/neons........it can't be both ways.

This has been addressed in other posts.
The OSI code clearly shows that indestructible clothing is possible, and other threads have suggested that items such as these may have existed. That's not the reason why they exist here, but it is a very valid counter to the accuracy concerns you're raising.

The tower/castle/keep walls thing isn't even similar to clothing destruction issue though, as it's being asked for the housing walls that something inaccurate be globally and specifically coded in clear violation of what we know, but the clothing issue was created by the intention of increasing accuracy for new clothing and simply left behind a group of items that may not be accurate (if not in terms of existence, certainly in terms of quantity), yet clothing decay and armor damage is still roughly only very similar to OSI, while the LOS code and building architecture is exactly precise to OSI as it currently stands on Second Age.

There are many mechanics on UOSA that could be made more accurate; but it's a logical fallacy that the failure or delay in fixing one mechanic necessitates breaking the accuracy of another, especially one that's completely unrelated. It would be reasonable to consider removing an accurate mechanic temporarily if an inaccurate mechanic (such as the ability to cast EV's into houses) could not be remedied immediately (which in this case we did). We did this in the case of insta-res, and it's still intended for us to find a way to fix that; but due to the client side nature of the original insta-res function, it's been challenging.

This type of argument is used again and again, but I honestly don't consider it to be a valid point of debate. A valid conclusion should be able to stand on it's own merit, and not need be supported by other unrelated results. That is to say, the chain of logic for keeping era-accurate mechanics relating to housing does not include clothing, nor does the chain of logic that resulted in the clothing include housing. They are separate issues, but it is believed the logic is consistently applied across all these points of contention.

There are valid points to be made in regards to the clothing, such as the point matron made that when we changed the katana speed it would have been more consistent for us to have left grandfathered katanas behind instead of changing all the existing ones. That point is well taken, and tbh it hadn't been considered when the change was made, and certainly should have been.

If the goal is to point out mistakes we've made in the past you should find no shortage of material; however I hope that it can be seen that over the years we have become more consistent and not less so.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The following was posted as I was composing this:

By that logic staff should grandfather already placed homes and make only new homes susceptible to the LOS bug. Most players that placed keeps/towers/castles placed them with the knowledge that they were safe places to macro.

They weren't safe though, and haven't been for years. This is only recently discovered, but it's not new, it just wasn't known to most players.

Were it the however case that this was something that was intentionally added, such as the katana speed changes, you'd have a good point to this in terms of consistency.

4/13/98 - This update listing includes the contents of the mini-patch that went in on 4/20/98 - http://wiki.uosecondage.com/1998_Patch_Notes wrote:The trick for getting vendors to make items not-for-sale that are not eligible for it will be fixed. All items in vendors currently will be fixed retroactively!

Nov 10 1998 12:24AM - Server Updates - http://wiki.uosecondage.com/1998_Patch_Notes wrote:A retroactive weapons fixer will adjust weapons to fit the new weapons statistics going in. This code will attempt to transfer over your old weapons and adjust them to the correct weapons scale. It will fix one-hit weapons, "prepatch" weapons with outdated damage ratings, weapons with multiply applied magical bonuses, and similar problems. However, it may not function perfectly with all particular combinations of weapon abilities. In particular, exceptional quality weapons may lose some of their capability in the adjustment.

Server update Nov 23 1998 10:59AM - ITEMS - http://wiki.uosecondage.com/1998_Patch_Notes wrote:Armor will also go through the same sort of "retroactive fix" that was recently put in for weapons. This will eliminate "pre-patch" armor with excessive bonuses.

Housing Update Phase 2--Claim Process Begins Dec 8 1998 10:08AM - MISCELLANEOUS - http://wiki.uosecondage.com/1998_Patch_Notes wrote:Practice weapons will now be handled by the code that retroactively fixes weapons with non-standard abilities. Newbie weapons will automatically have newbie stats replaced on them every time they are equipped.

Faust wrote:Would just like to point out for the record that OSI started retroactively correcting weapon stats around mid/late '98 after changes were made using a retroactive fixer for weapons/armor and possibly other items.

4/13/98 - This update listing includes the contents of the mini-patch that went in on 4/20/98 - http://wiki.uosecondage.com/1998_Patch_Notes wrote:The trick for getting vendors to make items not-for-sale that are not eligible for it will be fixed. All items in vendors currently will be fixed retroactively!

Nov 10 1998 12:24AM - Server Updates - http://wiki.uosecondage.com/1998_Patch_Notes wrote:A retroactive weapons fixer will adjust weapons to fit the new weapons statistics going in. This code will attempt to transfer over your old weapons and adjust them to the correct weapons scale. It will fix one-hit weapons, "prepatch" weapons with outdated damage ratings, weapons with multiply applied magical bonuses, and similar problems. However, it may not function perfectly with all particular combinations of weapon abilities. In particular, exceptional quality weapons may lose some of their capability in the adjustment.

Server update Nov 23 1998 10:59AM - ITEMS - http://wiki.uosecondage.com/1998_Patch_Notes wrote:Armor will also go through the same sort of "retroactive fix" that was recently put in for weapons. This will eliminate "pre-patch" armor with excessive bonuses.

Housing Update Phase 2--Claim Process Begins Dec 8 1998 10:08AM - MISCELLANEOUS - http://wiki.uosecondage.com/1998_Patch_Notes wrote:Practice weapons will now be handled by the code that retroactively fixes weapons with non-standard abilities. Newbie weapons will automatically have newbie stats replaced on them every time they are equipped.

Faust wrote:Would just like to point out for the record that OSI started retroactively correcting weapon stats around mid/late '98 after changes were made using a retroactive fixer for weapons/armor and possibly other items.

4/13/98 - This update listing includes the contents of the mini-patch that went in on 4/20/98 - http://wiki.uosecondage.com/1998_Patch_Notes wrote:The trick for getting vendors to make items not-for-sale that are not eligible for it will be fixed. All items in vendors currently will be fixed retroactively!

Nov 10 1998 12:24AM - Server Updates - http://wiki.uosecondage.com/1998_Patch_Notes wrote:A retroactive weapons fixer will adjust weapons to fit the new weapons statistics going in. This code will attempt to transfer over your old weapons and adjust them to the correct weapons scale. It will fix one-hit weapons, "prepatch" weapons with outdated damage ratings, weapons with multiply applied magical bonuses, and similar problems. However, it may not function perfectly with all particular combinations of weapon abilities. In particular, exceptional quality weapons may lose some of their capability in the adjustment.

Server update Nov 23 1998 10:59AM - ITEMS - http://wiki.uosecondage.com/1998_Patch_Notes wrote:Armor will also go through the same sort of "retroactive fix" that was recently put in for weapons. This will eliminate "pre-patch" armor with excessive bonuses.

Housing Update Phase 2--Claim Process Begins Dec 8 1998 10:08AM - MISCELLANEOUS - http://wiki.uosecondage.com/1998_Patch_Notes wrote:Practice weapons will now be handled by the code that retroactively fixes weapons with non-standard abilities. Newbie weapons will automatically have newbie stats replaced on them every time they are equipped.

Pac wrote:

Faust wrote:Would just like to point out for the record that OSI started retroactively correcting weapon stats around mid/late '98 after changes were made using a retroactive fixer for weapons/armor and possibly other items.

4/13/98 - This update listing includes the contents of the mini-patch that went in on 4/20/98 - http://wiki.uosecondage.com/1998_Patch_Notes wrote:The trick for getting vendors to make items not-for-sale that are not eligible for it will be fixed. All items in vendors currently will be fixed retroactively!

Nov 10 1998 12:24AM - Server Updates - http://wiki.uosecondage.com/1998_Patch_Notes wrote:A retroactive weapons fixer will adjust weapons to fit the new weapons statistics going in. This code will attempt to transfer over your old weapons and adjust them to the correct weapons scale. It will fix one-hit weapons, "prepatch" weapons with outdated damage ratings, weapons with multiply applied magical bonuses, and similar problems. However, it may not function perfectly with all particular combinations of weapon abilities. In particular, exceptional quality weapons may lose some of their capability in the adjustment.

Server update Nov 23 1998 10:59AM - ITEMS - http://wiki.uosecondage.com/1998_Patch_Notes wrote:Armor will also go through the same sort of "retroactive fix" that was recently put in for weapons. This will eliminate "pre-patch" armor with excessive bonuses.

Housing Update Phase 2--Claim Process Begins Dec 8 1998 10:08AM - MISCELLANEOUS - http://wiki.uosecondage.com/1998_Patch_Notes wrote:Practice weapons will now be handled by the code that retroactively fixes weapons with non-standard abilities. Newbie weapons will automatically have newbie stats replaced on them every time they are equipped.

Precedent has been established; proof as been presented.

They must break. There is no defensible argument to the contrary.