UO Second Age

Myrnae wrote:What's the reason for not having automated events again? Is it because they were originally written for an older version of RunUO and need to be modified and with Derrick being absent, no one can do this?? If it is, send me the code and I'll load it on my shard, fix it, test it, and send it back so you can test and implement it.

Kaivan wrote:From this point forward, posters will refrain from using this thread to request the return of the automated event system.

Kaivan wrote: From this point forward, posters will refrain from using this thread to request the return of the automated event system.

When I mentioned the scheduling of a simple weekly event, I had in mind one with staff presence. New players like to see that, and it helps morale for everyone.

Again, I'd like to repeat that the fact of it being a pvp event is secondary to it being a consistent weekly occurrence. Any event will do. The long-term questing events are nice, but with the server consisting of mostly older players with active personal lives I don't see those events working out, unless of course they were centered around the consistent weekly schedule. It is much easier for us all to look out for two hours or so out of the same day each week than to keep up with a changing schedule that might include many hours of activity to equal meaningful progression in the storyline.

Elph wrote:

Kaivan wrote: From this point forward, posters will refrain from using this thread to request the return of the automated event system.

When I mentioned the scheduling of a simple weekly event, I had in mind one with staff presence. New players like to see that, and it helps morale for everyone.

Again, I'd like to repeat that the fact of it being a pvp event is secondary to it being a consistent weekly occurrence. Any event will do. The long-term questing events are nice, but with the server consisting of mostly older players with active personal lives I don't see those events working out, unless of course they were centered around the consistent weekly schedule. It is much easier for us all to look out for two hours or so out of the same day each week than to keep up with a changing schedule that might include many hours of activity to equal meaningful progression in the storyline.

Did you see the thread I created this morning & linked a few posts ago in this thread? viewtopic.php?f=11&t=60286 Input is being requested, there are plans on the table, but players do need to be part of the solution.

Brilliant, no I did not see that. Thank you.

Kaivan wrote:The mental gymnastics that is takes to make an argument that catering to a specific group of players is the way to do things, because others get trickle down benefits, is astounding. It is a patently absurd form of doublethink to believe that creating specialized & isolating content for a particular group of players is somehow a benefit to those left outside of that content (other servers have operated under this belief, and it drove off anyone who wasn't part of the "in" crowd).

PvPers are not a special group, and are not deserving of special treatment. The world of UO is not centered around them, with all other styles existing as a ripple effect from its existence. There will be no automated event system.

This isn't some "PvPers are better than you" quest. A lot of people play (or played) here for PvP. Either way you cut it those "PvPers" do in fact have a "trickle down" affect on the whole community. (Pvpers buy/sell weapons, items, houses.. join guilds/pk/get stolen from.. play the game?)

I don't see how this is "mental gymnastics." I apologize if I personally offended you somehow.
(Also.. I said having PvP and PvM events would be best.. I wasn't looking to cater toward any "specific group")

I agree with Elph, I don't think anyone has a hard on for automation, it just seemed like a simple solution to address consistently ran events. If a GM could run consistent scheduled events that would be even better.

With no events I agree with Kavian that the pursuit of era accuracy and mechanics is the best move... assuming we have a marketing plan in place to keep a consistent stream of new players coming.

If player donations cannot fund (or the powers that be cannot get behind) an effective marketing program, events or some sort of change seems necessary.

Jay wrote:This isn't some "PvPers are better than you" quest. A lot of people play (or played) here for PvP. Either way you cut it those "PvPers" do in fact have a "trickle down" affect on the whole community.

It sure seems like it when you ignore the fact that you can make the exact same statement about people who play or played here and replace PvP with non-PvP.

You even make bold claims to the effect that PvP events do more for the population than non-PvP events, so much so that non-PvP events do nothing themselves. In fact, you argue that PvP events do more for non-PvPers than non-PvP events do for them and that the only reason that non-PvP events should even exist is to placate the non-PvPers that will naturally flock to a server that has PvPers on it (which are attracted to the server because of the PvP events):

Jay wrote:I think the point is being missed here. These PvP events cater to population.
...
The fact is.. PvP events do more to help the population than non PvP events.
...
"100% PvP events" are catered more towards the non pvper than any PvM "gem entrusted wraith" type event ever will be (even if they don't realize it) because it brings them more people to play with/grief/sell to etc.

(both type of events would be best. PvP events to grow population and PvM events for people to fight their super duper blue mongbats or whatever, and bring the community full circle.)

It seems almost laughably insane to make these kinds of claims, because they boil down to an argument that non-PvP events amount to nothing but a drain on resources and that PvP events are some panacea from which all other play styles derive all benefits from. Then, to top off what you're claiming, you pretty much ignore the point brought up in the text you quoted:

Boomland Jenkins wrote:This caters 100% to PvPers. We are not interested in catering purely to one type of player base with events. PVM events can bring PVP, but these PVP events do not open the door for non-PVP players.

This is what I was referring to when I talked about mental gymnastics. Your entirely unfounded claims lay 100% of all benefit that a server can obtain at the feet of PvPers, while ignoring the fact that you're catering to one specific playstyle in the process.

Jay wrote:I don't see how this is "mental gymnastics." I apologize if I personally offended you somehow.

I'm not personally offended by what you said, but what you're saying is a trite argument that's been constantly dragged out for over 10 years to justify the PvP centric behavior of many servers. The argument is old, and it doesn't carry any weight, as evidenced by the long list of PvP focused servers that exist for a short time and then shut down.

Jay wrote:I agree with Elph, I don't think anyone has a hard on for automation, it just seemed like a simple solution to address consistently ran events.

Really? I don't think that's the case:

Jay wrote:Please don't let "purple pots and animal bombs" stop forward progress. Those are relatively minor issues to work through/deal with. Revive the almighty...

I would hope that you're aware that the bolded phrase has been used by supporters of the return of automated events. In fact, I'm 100% sure you are aware, given that you quoted someone who spent all of his time asking for automated events to be returned, in the last thread on the subject. Hell, at the time of this post, your post is the most recent response to that thread:

Jay wrote:

Notorious wrote:bring events back. revive the almighty.

Jay wrote:If a GM could run consistent scheduled events that would be even better.

Events are not going to be run on a listed and scheduled clock so that players can schedule their time on the server. Events are intended to punctuate the normal game play, not be the game play, and I'm not the only staff member who views it that way. Any events that we have will not be scheduled like the old automated event system.

Jay wrote:With no events I agree with Kavian that the pursuit of era accuracy and mechanics is the best move... assuming we have a marketing plan in place to keep a consistent stream of new players coming.

If player donations cannot fund (or the powers that be cannot get behind) an effective marketing program, events or some sort of change seems necessary.

UOSA staff has never been in the business of advertising the server. This has always been the purview of the players, and we aren't inclined to pick up that task. The issue is not whether enough donations exist for us to successfully advertise, it's a matter of the limited resource of time.

In fact, it is the case. Automation was a means to an end, that is all.
(having events on a routine schedule without the need for a live GM because GM time is a limited resource.)

The quote from me does not have the word "automation" in it just events, although I have advocated them before.
It doesn't matter how it gets done, as long as it gets done.

My personal motivation is just to get people to the dungeons so that I can try to flame strike them, and since a lot of people are looking for pvp only events.. it seems like a logical direction to go.

Snapple Real Fact #134: I didn't really compete in the events when they were here myself.. I just made money off of them gambling.(zelf for my fans)

Kaivan wrote:UOSA staff has never been in the business of advertising the server. This has always been the purview of the players, and we aren't inclined to pick up that task. The issue is not whether enough donations exist for us to successfully advertise, it's a matter of the limited resource of time.

Are we involved in SEO or pay per click advertising? Something like that doesn't usually take too much time, only money. If we're already involved with similar campaigns is this something that can be re-visited to make sure that were implementing the right strategy to reach our target audience? Any information on this might be helpful, a lot of the ground work I'm sure can be done for free by us players. (some of which do that very thing for living) In the end all a GM would need to do is review the AD/strategy, and pay for it.

I'm not looking for an argument, just some more players. Help a brother out

Jay wrote:In fact, it is the case. Automation was a means to an end, that is all.
(having events on a routine schedule without the need for a live GM because GM time is a limited resource.)

The quote from me does not have the word "automation" in it just events, although I have advocated them before.
It doesn't matter how it gets done, as long as it gets done.

My personal motivation is just to get people to the dungeons so that I can try to flame strike them, and since a lot of people are looking for pvp only events.. it seems like a logical direction to go.

Snapple Real Fact #134: I didn't really compete in the events when they were here myself.. I just made money off of them gambling.(zelf for my fans)

Whether you personally advocate for the wholesale return of automated events or just PvP style events is irrelevant because there are issues with both types of requests, and each staff member has made it clear that we will not be be introducing them again. They are exclusionary, are expected to be run in a fashion that can't be interfered with, and are expected to be on a schedule so players can know when to log on and participate in them, instead of participating in a game that is punctuated by occasional in-world events.

PvP style events as seen under the old even system will not be returning (e.g. 1v1, CTF, DD), end of discussion. What you will hopefully see is more of what we've done in the last year, and if that isn't acceptable, then you'll have to find some other avenue of entertainment on UOSA.

Jay wrote:

Kaivan wrote:UOSA staff has never been in the business of advertising the server. This has always been the purview of the players, and we aren't inclined to pick up that task. The issue is not whether enough donations exist for us to successfully advertise, it's a matter of the limited resource of time.

Are we involved in SEO or pay per click advertising? Something like that doesn't usually take too much time, only money. If we're already involved with similar campaigns is this something that can be re-visited to make sure that were implementing the right strategy to reach our target audience? Any information on this might be helpful, a lot of the ground work I'm sure can be done for free by us players. (some of which do that very thing for living) In the end all a GM would need to do is review the AD/strategy, and pay for it.

I'm not looking for an argument, just some more players. Help a brother out

As far as I'm aware, UOSA has a Facebook page that is occasionally updated, and I believe that we may have a Twitter account as well. Beyond that, I am not aware of any advertizement avenues on others social media platforms or do through any other significant means.

While some players did log on only for events in order to farm silver/trophy points, this was not the case for every player, it seems silly to remove an entire system due to the abuse of a handful of individuals. For me, event automation was always about having at least one hour or so during the week where you could slap shit with a hally while 6 dexxers and the entirety of TG chased you down a maze filled with traps. Crazy, good, fun.

I vaguely recall only being able to make it to 1-2 events during the work week as work/uni would usually take up the majority of my time, it was nice knowing that at least once or twice in the week there would be something to break apart the monotony of farming/killing Guerrilla. Anyone that claims that players purely logged on for events obviously never visited the GY/Guerrilla's house before/after a CTF/DD.

Personally I wouldn't mind if the "automated events" were brought back with no rewards, had no scheduled times and were only announced 15 minutes before they actually occurred.

I'm not going to come down hard since you probably missed the post I made about it, but the topic of automated events has been discussed far too many times, and this thread will not become another mouthpiece for that issue in order to drag out a long discussion that we have already responded to. There is a moratorium on asking for, or pushing the focus of this thread onto automated events.

If anyone wants to discuss events of a general nature, focus your suggestions and input on the types of events discussed in this post. These are the types of events that fit within our core goals, and will be the type of events that you see here, not anything resembling the old automated event system.

My 2 cents on the common PvM events is that the inherent problem of T2A limited events is that the mob AI is borderline retarded, the only challenge lies in clearing out masses of adds before burning a boss mob down. I know some events typically do not follow that methodology, but far too many I have attended do.

The previous post was not intended to promote oldschool automated events, rather to clear up some misconceptions I've read in this thread/others. There may have been a few comments regarding their return, but my memory of the events has always been through rose tinted nostalgia goggles.

Lately it seems the attitude on the forums has been "Us Against Them" , we're all trying to make the shard a better place yet most of these threads devolve to shitfests that inevitably get moved to TT. Yes we have some retarded ideas and wont shut up about them, but how is that any different to 5 years ago?

Soma wrote:Yes we have some retarded ideas and wont shut up about them, but how is that any different to 5 years ago?

The problem is that the same idea is thrown in our face, and players don't take no for an answer. And when we don't respond to it because we've responded to it countless times before, we get called inactive or told that we don't care. In the past, at least there was a willingness to respect the idea that we won't do certain things, and to drop it after a while.

To play devil's advocate here, it's important to remember that in the past there were more than 50 people online during certain peak times. Times have changes, things are bleaker than ever, thus, the desperate tone of complaints. I'm not defending the AE spam here, just pointing to what I believe could be causing it.

Also, not everybody here wants automated events--a lot of us have other concerns. It's important to distinguish between those spamming shit about automated events and those of us who bring up things like GM activity and plans for the future, which are both extremely valid concerns. Lumping us all together just muddies the water.

That being said, as I've previously mentioned I'm pleased with the responses here and Boomland's poll. These are good starting steps to get the community and the GM's back on the same side.

Soma wrote:My 2 cents on the common PvM events is that the inherent problem of T2A limited events is that the mob AI is borderline retarded, the only challenge lies in clearing out masses of adds before burning a boss mob down. I know some events typically do not follow that methodology, but far too many i have attended do?

In my personal experiences, every single "pvm" event I've been a part of in the last 2 years has led to looting amongst the dead, theiving amongst the living, and general outbreaks of hally swinging and murdering faces. I can't recall one event that didn't lead to atleast 2 of the 3 above.

In case you haven't been paying attention....