Discussion: Limiting Razor for era accuracy

[Fwerp]

I am really not sure what I even think should be done, but I figured it should at least be discussed. Whether it's 20 line mining macros, 20 line halberd macros, or archer bots, something about elaborate razor macros seems out of place on this shard.

Should we impose some sort of limits on razor capabilities? For PvP? For resource gathering? Could it be enforced?

Anyway, I'd like to know others' thoughts. This is obviously very preliminary. If we get a good discussion, a poll and a more focused synopsis will follow.

[HardCore]

How about we work on the game and when everything is done razor can be addressed.

Our bad toothed canadian already discussed this anyway.

[Fwerp]

Well, the aspects of the game that need to be addressed at this point are mostly minutiae. Razor capabilities influence game play far more than most of the minor tweaks we are likely to see in the near future will.

Hemperor's thread was a rather long time ago if I recall, and he was pushing an agenda. Also, he's a polemical figure and it probably devolved quickly into ad hominem attacks. Neither of these is my intention in this thread.

[tekai]

I am strongly against any change to razor. I don't even really want to debate it, it would change far to much for the bad, then what it will solve in the pvp world, farming world ect. People already complain about cutting bandages, its like the worst thing ever for some players starting. You would be doing that to everyone. The time constraints on starting up would become to deep.

[Chaos]

not sure but from my fast read . it does not sound like they are talking about simple macros such as cutting aids .. but the more advanced macro related to pvp and unattened macros .. not sure how to slove this just don't think it would be without basis to think of basing razor or like uo assist which was used and legal .. in age.. if i'm not correct ..

[Hemperor]

Off the top of my head, the only changes you could make that can be deemed "accurate" (in accordance with what was possible through 3rd party programs in the era) and would affect pvp are all the special target hotkeys and hits/mana/stam percentages.

Disabling the loop feature in Razor can actually do a lot of good. Players can still macro using UOLoop, which essentially loops a designated hotkey within UO, however Razor will not be able to use for loops and a macro will not be able to call another macro... This eliminates resource gathering macros, crazy crafting macros such as full spell books and other things not possible within the era.

[Fwerp]

Yes, Chaos, this is what I am trying to put up for discussion.

[marmalade]

also (if it would even be possible) limiting other things such as smart last target, environment filters, range check, open corpses, auto open doors etc could make playing alot more interesting.

[Duke Jones]

I honestly believe the in-game macro system originally built by the devs was purposely built with it's limitations, to AVOID the problems that we currently have with advanced scripts, macro vs. macro combat, inflated economy, unattended resource gathering, etc.

We're scripting ourselves into Glorified, interactive, NPCs.

The answer is finding a more simplified connection agent.

[Jester]

I agree with what Duke Jones said. I belive it would be a good thing to limit Razors uses, because it truly is crazy the stuff you can do with it.

[son]

How practical is this? Dont we need a special razor client, and razor source code is not open? Or can something be done server side?

How do you police this?

Sounds like a bad idea.

[Pro]

People will just do what they did on divinity and use different ways to connect.

[Mikel123]

I don't see the problem here. I don't mind crafters having it a little easier, and I don't believe resource-gathering macros are a big issue. I've got a full time job, a kid on the way, and I have plenty of time to earn enough gold to buy whatever I want. It's not like there's some massive inflation that makes it impossible to buy anything unless you use it too.

[poogoblin]

I'm down for banning razor all together. You can only have so much of a T2A feel with razor

[Hemperor]

Few quick facts.

You can't ban Razor, which is why the negotiator script is usually the best idea. Since you can't ban it, you can make it so you can only connect with Razor but the features will be limited. Here's a direct copy and paste from the script of what can be done:

FilterWeather = 1 << 0, // Weather Filter
FilterLight = 1 << 1, // Light Filter
SmartTarget = 1 << 2, // Smart Last Target
RangedTarget = 1 << 3, // Range Check Last Target
AutoOpenDoors = 1 << 4, // Automatically Open Doors
DequipOnCast = 1 << 5, // Unequip Weapon on spell cast
AutoPotionEquip = 1 << 6, // Un/Re-equip weapon on potion use
PoisonedChecks = 1 << 7, // Block heal If poisoned/Macro IIf Poisoned condition/Heal or Cure self
LoopedMacros = 1 << 8, // Disallow Looping macros, For loops, and macros that call other macros
UseOnceAgent = 1 << 9, // The use once agent
RestockAgent = 1 << 10,// The restock agent
SellAgent = 1 << 11,// The sell agent
BuyAgent = 1 << 12,// The buy agent
PotionHotkeys = 1 << 13,// All potion hotkeys
RandomTargets = 1 << 14,// All random target hotkeys (Not target next, last target, target self)
ClosestTargets = 1 << 15,// All closest target hotkeys
OverheadHealth = 1 << 16,// Health and Mana/Stam messages shown over player's heads

http://www.runuo.com/forums/custom-scri ... ation.html

If this script is enabled, contrary to what others are saying here, there is absolutely no way to connect unless you are using Razor and have "Negotiate features with server" checked in the options. Personally, I have played with this script and although it may seem like an "inconvenience" when we are all used to the auto UO of today, it really helps recreate the oldschool feel and balance.

The only things that would be "disabled" would be features deemed not possible in the era through the 3rd party programs of the day. What I have put in blue is an "approximate" proposal list of what could be done.

Disabling the loop feature in Razor can actually do a lot of good. Players can still macro using UOLoop, which essentially loops a designated hotkey within UO, however Razor will not be able to use for loops and a macro will not be able to call another macro... This eliminates resource gathering macros, crazy crafting macros such as full spell books and other things not possible within the era.

Hopefully the Canadian with bad teeth hasn't put too much of a bad spin on this

EDIT: Also, if you are against implementing this, why? Shouldn't it be considered and dealt with just like any other accuracy issue?