UO Second Age

Since the current rules state that IRC has no restrictions on scamming, yet the message boards do, just follow these steps:

(1) If you offer an item for sale or trade in IRC, finalize the details of the items being traded.
(2) Once the items have been determined, come to the trade forum and start a topic with this title:

"The Pending Trade Contract Between <seller> and <buyer>"

(3) Once this thread is made, direct all parties involved to the thread with the instructions to respond, in writing, that they agree and will adhere to all terms of the trade.

This should make the trade now under the umbrella of the trade regulations applying to scams over the message boards.

This part is KEY:

-If the person REFUSES to agree to the contract IN WRITING then they are PROBABLY TRYING TO SCAM YOU.

This process takes 2 minutes, and will protect you from being scammed out of hours of work.

This has also been posted in the trade forum as a reminder.

Oh, and if you "meh" at this post don't come whining when you get scammed by someone PMing you over IRC.

While it would be a good idea, there would need to be made an entire new forum for it, just to not spam the other trade forum. Also, people normally use IRC to sell things because they want it at that instance, they don't want to go around making threads, and all that jazz, as fast and effortlessly as it may be.

let the people who are dumb enough get scammed, until there are set in stone rules about it, theres not much we can do =/

Yeah, I think a dedicated anti-scamming forum is totally justified, here.

No one said it needs a new forum.

It's not meant for people selling something for 5k, but if it stops a 200k scam, then I'd say it'd be worth it for me to make a quick post on the trade forum. How would it be any different, essentially, from a "For Sale" thread? It just creates a forum-based (and scam protected) way to finalize the trade.

It's a good idea, and surely the sub-forum can be made/modded for such a thing.

However, lets not forget "personal responsibility" here...

While some people may be new, and others might be unfamiliar with this era's method of transaction...part of the greatness of UO is being able to scam someone. Whether it be by stealing or some other trade trick.

If people aren't smart enough to take the prior precautions when selling/buying...Well that's their loss.

Retarded idea. Quit trying to put buyer due diligence an admin's responsibility.

Its extremely easy to make a transaction 100% safe. If you get lazy or get caught slipping its not anyone else's fault.

This is a great idea actually, and exactly how it's done on divinity.

If you want to sell something you know is expensive and already have a buyer, you just let them know you are making a thread for it. Tell them to go bid on it there (put a buyout up and have them bin the auction) then it's on the forum and they are breaking Derricks TOS if they scam you.

I'm actually surprised that people havn't started doing this already.

This is of course if you don't have access to your own vendor. Which I think is the safest way to sell stuff in the first place.

Aye, very good tip Cutpurse. Huzzah!

Cutpurse wrote: Since the current rules state that IRC has no restrictions on scamming, yet the message boards do, just follow these steps:

Well done but i cant see a change of the rules anywhere. What do i miss?

IRC rules

*confused*

Homie wrote:

Cutpurse wrote: Since the current rules state that IRC has no restrictions on scamming, yet the message boards do, just follow these steps:

Well done but i cant see a change of the rules anywhere. What do i miss?

IRC rules

*confused*

It has no restrictions on scamming via a Private Message or other channels, only on the main channel. Most people are scamming via PMs - thus why cutpurse wants to do this.

BTW this is a great idea, and I totally agree with it. I say on large purchases such as a house, it should be done via forum post for security and legitimacy.

+1 for this post, and to get a sub-forum created! Derrick what say ye?

Trading should be conducted in #secondagetrade. Perpetrating scams may not be done in the main IRC channel or in #SecondAgeTrade. Save it for ingame or #SecondAgePVP. However don't assume that just because we have this rule people won't try to scam you in channel, but channel bans may be enforced after the fact.

If someone uses the main or the trading channel to get attention for a intented scam or is pming someone whos in the main or trade channel he / she is still abusing the "scam-free" channels for their dishonest plans and should be punished for that reason.

Example:

Im yelling "SELLING +20 VANQ HALLY - 20 K ONLY" in the main channel and we detail the deal out via pm. We meet at a location and i'll give you a might hally instead of a vanq (the propper precautions you should have taken left beside). -> scam that should be punished because i used the main channel to get the needed attention and it makes no diffrence.

I pm you in the main or trade channel with this offert and give you as mentioned above a might hally. -> its still a punishable scam because without the main or trade channel i would never have had the posibility to reach you. You can see.. to scam you i had to use the "scam-free" channels to even be able for a private chat with my victim.

Question:

Is it possible for the staff / IRC-mods to check who pm'ed whom from which channel? in other words: can you see when im opening a private chat from the pvp channel or from the trade channel?

With the given rules i dont see a large range for scams in irc. Maybe a scammer sees it and thinks it would be an extra smart move to not read between the lines and only focusing on the words "main channel" and "trade channel" like an advertisement bot.

This would lead the whole irc rule regarding the scam issue to nonsense and gives the scammer an unfair advantage due to this wooly rule.

I know a lot of players here dont want these restrictions and scamming was and still is a part of this game - ingame.

In this context i would like to know if there were any irc chats like ours during t2a hosted by osi in 1998/99?

*still confused*

regards

Homie wrote: Is it possible for the staff / IRC-mods to check who pm'ed whom from which channel? in other words: can you see when im opening a private chat from the pvp channel or from the trade channel?

No.

Nice idea but it doesn't REALLY matter. Bans only apply to IRC or the forum, the scammer does not get banned from the game, so what's the point. Look, felix was banned from #secondage and STILL perpetrated scams.. it just doesn't matter. While I don't like felix at all (and he runs to guard zone during server wars, lmao), he is pretty much valid in saying that as a seller you have to do your part to be secure.

I'd like to know what kinda evidence/proof you would need to back up a scam accusation. I don't know what kinda powers the staff have to investigate these matters but I wouldn't expect them to review each case.

What other in-game precautions should a person take such as, screenies or chat logs to use as eveidence if a scammer breaks forums rules?

Surprise surprise that the biggest objection comes from the biggest scammer. Yeah, people need to be careful. People need to study who they deal with... but the thing about IRC is that really nayone can pretend to be anyone else.
On the board, it's hard to make a similar-enough-to-scam screenname. See the point we're trying to make, felix? Don't play ignorant, you know you've been circumventing the set rules by using PMs. You're trying to work the system and people following this guideline would basically quash your methods.

Read my suggestion, felix -- not once did I say that staff should do anything to change the rules. I just offered a very logical solution to people getting scammed via PMs on IRC. Make a board post -- it almost makes TOO MUCH SENSE. If this weren't something that should be dictated then there wouldn't be the rules in place that already are.

I hope this really catches on -- so much that MAYBE there will be put in a Transaction Contract sub-forum. If you were a legitimate (read: not a douchebag) then you'd have no problem loggin ginto the thread to say "I agree".