Guards whacking incorrectly

[Kaivan]

Ultimately the way it is supposed to work is that a player must commit a criminal action on something in town to be eligible to get guard whacked in town. If a player does not actually commit a criminal act in town, then that player should not be held accountable (in so much as the guards will come) for that action if he goes into town later on. This applies to all action including:

• Stealing while out of town.
• Looting a player outside of town.
• Attacking a person or pet outside of town.

In all of these cases, a player should not be able to commit that act on someone outside of town and walk in to town and get guard whacked for any reason (this includes auto defending, because auto defending is not the same as attacking a person).

[nightshark]

Ultimately the way it is supposed to work is that a player must commit a criminal action on something in town to be eligible to get guard whacked in town. If a player does not actually commit a criminal act in town, then that player should not be held accountable (in so much as the guards will come) for that action if he goes into town later on. This applies to all action including:

• Stealing while out of town.
• Looting a player outside of town.
• Attacking a person or pet outside of town.

In all of these cases, a player should not be able to commit that act on someone outside of town and walk in to town and get guard whacked for any reason (this includes auto defending, because auto defending is not the same as attacking a person).

The simplest way to put it is that you have to reset your criminal timer inside town, in order to be eligible for a whack. I don't understand what you mean by auto-defending not getting you whacked, if you punch/hit a blue in town you should get whacked, regardless of whether that player is forcing you to hit them...

[Kaivan]

Ultimately the way it is supposed to work is that a player must commit a criminal action on something in town to be eligible to get guard whacked in town. If a player does not actually commit a criminal act in town, then that player should not be held accountable (in so much as the guards will come) for that action if he goes into town later on. This applies to all action including:

• Stealing while out of town.
• Looting a player outside of town.
• Attacking a person or pet outside of town.

In all of these cases, a player should not be able to commit that act on someone outside of town and walk in to town and get guard whacked for any reason (this includes auto defending, because auto defending is not the same as attacking a person).

The simplest way to put it is that you have to reset your criminal timer inside town, in order to be eligible for a whack. I don't understand what you mean by auto-defending not getting you whacked, if you punch/hit a blue in town you should get whacked, regardless of whether that player is forcing you to hit them...

The reason why auto-defending shouldn't get you guard whacked is because auto-defending isn't an actual attack (i.e. double clicking or casting an offensive spell) and doesn't reset your criminal timer.

[Sym]

This has happened to me many times.

All someone needs to do to get you guardwack is hit their "attack last" button. For instance... if you attack them outside of the guard zone, have an ongoing fight for X number of minutes, then both go into the guards zone. The second he hits his attack last button, you get gwacked. I never remember it functioning like this on OSI either, its kinda annoying here on UOSA.

[tekai]

Im pretty sure this will be fixed with the rest of the flagging issues, right Kiavan?

Currently if you double click someone and not do any damage or anything they can count you, and that is incorrect. Wasn't it decided we were going with the "Late T2A 1 damage or debuff" rule that made paralize give you counts?

[Kaivan]

Well, paralyze and debuffs being responsible for a murder count is something that happened prior to our cutoff date so it should be in. However, simply attacking a person and not doing any damage should not make you eligible for a count. The same should be true of using spells such as mana drain and mana vampire (both of which are considered attacks) and stealing (which does currently work that way). Each of these actions are considered aggressive actions but only specific ones should make you eligible for a murder count, and simply attacking a person is not one of them.

[Hicha]

Im pretty sure this will be fixed with the rest of the flagging issues, right Kiavan?

Currently if you double click someone and not do any damage or anything they can count you, and that is incorrect. Wasn't it decided we were going with the "Late T2A 1 damage or debuff" rule that made paralize give you counts?

You can double-click attack someone on the edge of your screen who is inside a building or underground and not only get flagged as aggressor, but get gwhacked and/or reported for murder if they die.

[Derrick]

Thanks for this report. This is being worked on.

[MatronDeWinter]

Are there patch notes for this change? Some sort of proof? I see that the thread was edited, understandable, I remember there being specific signs warning of the dangers of sitting afk in certain areas IN town. Archers would regularly patroll these areas and kill people while they bank. Later these spots were covered in with gardens so people could not get inside. This was on Pacific, other people posted accounts from other shards as well iirc.

Edit: I agree with hiicha/tekais claim of no-counts for double clicking but doing no damage though.

[Derrick]

I actually missed page two of this thread when I posted above. I was referring to getting guard whacked via auto-defend, which is undoubtedly a bug and will be fixed in next publish. This bug encompasses much more in scope than simply the combat moving to town and getting guard whacked.

[nightshark]

Are there patch notes for this change? Some sort of proof? I see that the thread was edited, understandable, I remember there being specific signs warning of the dangers of sitting afk in certain areas IN town. Archers would regularly patroll these areas and kill people while they bank. Later these spots were covered in with gardens so people could not get inside. This was on Pacific, other people posted accounts from other shards as well iirc.

Edit: I agree with hiicha/tekais claim of no-counts for double clicking but doing no damage though.

I don't remember anything like this. I actually completely disagree with NPCs needing LOS to call guards as well (I don't remember it being like that on OSI). If you look here, you'll see that Kaivan actually went and tested both live servers and official servers - and NPCs do not need LOS to call guards (which is the way they currently function here). The RunUO default for guards is actually OSI accurate - I don't understand why anything has been changed on this server regarding their function.

I should clarify what I said earlier. When I say that "Guards would, and still do teleport outside of guard zone to kill criminals that attack an innocent inside guard zone", I meant to say that it still occurred on OSI. Also, I have done some testing on LoS in the demo and on live servers to determine whether NPC's needed a line of sight to see criminal actions or not. According to what testing I have done, LoS seems to have no bearing on whether an NPC or player can call guards on a person committing a criminal act (unless windows give every NPC a practically 100% view of whats going on outside).

[MatronDeWinter]

No, my point is this.
If I am outside of the guardzone, and attack someone inside the guardzone, I do not believe that the guards should kill me.

I know that it DID work this way once on OSI, but people would always run to town when poisoned, get you whacked. Or they would pre-cast recall to the nearest town and provoke attacks, thus guardwhacking someone outside.

[Derrick]

The original bug report on this thread is autodefend causing a criminal action, we seem to be diverting from that.

If there is any indication that auto-defend should cause you to get guard whacked I'm all ears. The discussion about whether or not guards should chase players out of town, etc, is a very good discussion to have, but it really should have it's own thread, either as it's own bug report, or in the discussion forum.

[The Beast of Exmoor]

Something similar happened to me while I was attacking a blue he kept running till he got close to the walls at trinsic and started spamming 'guards' and then eventually a guard appeared and I got whacked.
Bearing in mind this was outside the walls which is not inside the guard zone or atleast it should not be, since when did guards patrol outside of the town...

[Van Raily]

Guard zones can extend just outside of the gates, and do in most cases. It makes sense: if a civilian was running to within sight of the gates, the guards would certainly come out to their aid, though not pursue the enemy beyond the town's immediate vicinity. If you can see the town gates, your quarry has most likely evaded you. If you dare take the chance to catch them before they get that last tile, then that's your own risk. But sometimes you can catch 'em. Guard zones don't always match the same tiles, too. It's a weird fluid thing that I've never understood, even after a decade of playing, hehe. Makes things interesting, I suppose.