Spawn Rate

[Robbbb]

10/12/1999 - https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgr ... 4I58452mAJ

Seems to be no faster then fresh spawn every 20 minutes, but the vendors are
not in sync. That is, you buy 10 from each of two vendors in the same
building, one will have 19 hides before the other restocks.

7/9/1999 - https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgr ... X7RlzTsWkJ

>I was just wondering if someone could clarify how long it takes for
>shopkeepers to restock and refill with money. I only ask because I WAS
>under the impression that it was every 20 minutes or so

12/19/1999 - https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgr ... oi233NzmMJ

Vendors will eventually reset their spawn at 10 of each item that
they do not sell out of. If they sit around with 200 black pearls for
more than 20 minutes, they'll reset their spawn at 10 of each. You'll
just have to start all over if you let the spawn fall.

Looks like the '9' number is correct, but the 50 minutes may be wrong.

[Kaivan]

The respawn time is cited at different values by different players. The measurement of the 50 minute respawn was done in the demo, over a scheduled 5 hour period.

[FishinPro]

The respawn time is cited at different values by different players. The measurement of the 50 minute respawn was done in the demo, over a scheduled 5 hour period.

I dont believe this to be true, and once again, using an old demo from early 98 is not proof of anything...

This thread is labeled "Spawn TESTS" which means this person was actually testing the rate of spawn. Id take this evidence and the evidence above that is ACTUALLY in ERA over your old demo anyday...


12/8/99:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgr ... eugmJbczMJ

Vendors spawn their wares about every 20 minutes or so. Wood vendors
seem to spawn faster than hide vendors, although it may have been a
timing issue with my visits rather than their spawn.

2/12/98:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgr ... 0LjiWhyHkJ

I have already suggested that shops should sell max 20 of each item
per respawn. With 8 reagent shops that means via shop pumping in 160 recall
reagents per ~20 minutes (respawn).

5/26/98:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgr ... 1Lpq5BVJUJ

Shopkeeps stocking 10 each only of items regardless of demand. This
may have had something to do with the problem above. I also seem to
recall 'restocking' occurring only once an hour rather than the
roughly 20 minutes of today.

And to go with the quote above we have STRONG evidence of this being old, which leads me to believe that our 'demo' may not even be from 1998....


12/30/97:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgr ... 5XGCot8SEJ

> In case you haven't noticed...Shops do not run out of reagants. If you
> buy them out, they ALWAYS respawn with even more. Eventually they get
> up to over 200 of each reagant every 50 minutes or so. I don't see the
> reagant situation as a problem at all (other than the fact that they are
> WAY to cheap).

[Faust]

Pointing out an observation surrounding your sources.

All of your sources predate the demo but the very top one. This makes them a useless piece of information outside of information that could be used for past schematics since we know the demo was compiled into an exe in mid '98.

[FishinPro]

Pointing out an observation surrounding your sources.

All of your sources predate the demo but the very top one. This makes them a useless piece of information outside of information that could be used for past schematics since we know the demo was compiled into an exe in mid '98.

How would this make them useless? They are evidence on a timeline that helps prove my point. Also, Robbbb's evidence is ALL in late 1999.

You do not know for a fact that this demo is exact to the era mid 1998. Actual PLAYERS from that ERA are citing different information than the demo. REAL people that actually PLAYED the game during that time frame are saying this is not how it was and NO ONE is refuting this information on these posts, which range for 1.5 YEARS, which would leave any person with half a brain cell to believe that this information is correct. People do make mistakes, yes, but we arent talking 5-10 minutes off here and this many people cant be wrong. 20 minutes and 50 minutes is a large differential and if you search for 50 minutes on the forums all you find is the post that clearly states that in 1997 50 minutes WAS the timer...


The 'demo' was not the actual game and since clear evidence is here to suggest that the demo is actually wrong then we can conclude that the demo shouldnt be used to determine anything. It should only help support information and if real information conflicts with the demo then you use the real information and not the demo.

[FishinPro]

4/25/99:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgr ... pgzA77hGYJ

I'm trying to by reagents in various mage shops. It appears that there is a
periodicity to having a vendor be restocked by the server. What I mean is,
if I go up to a vendor and buy everything he has to sell (or some percentage
close to everything) the server will replenish his goods after 15 or 20
minutes so that I can buy more product from him.

The 15 to 20 min is about right
it is the period between to spawns.

[Kaivan]

You do not know for a fact that this demo is exact to the era mid 1998.

Actually we do. See the wiki page for dating the demo. The demo core and the scripts are all dated from 1998, and includes all of the core server changes and script changes from the 4/13/98 update. The demo even includes the script functions for the reputation system launched with the next patch, but it does not include other changes such as the guild warfare changes. This allows us to date the demo between 4/18/98 and 6/11/98.

Actual PLAYERS from that ERA are citing different information than the demo. REAL people that actually PLAYED the game during that time frame are saying this is not how it was and NO ONE is refuting this information on these posts, which range for 1.5 YEARS, which would leave any person with half a brain cell to believe that this information is correct. People do make mistakes, yes, but we arent talking 5-10 minutes off here and this many people cant be wrong. 20 minutes and 50 minutes is a large differential and if you search for 50 minutes on the forums all you find is the post that clearly states that in 1997 50 minutes WAS the timer...

The 'demo' was not the actual game and since clear evidence is here to suggest that the demo is actually wrong then we can conclude that the demo shouldnt be used to determine anything. It should only help support information and if real information conflicts with the demo then you use the real information and not the demo.

The best that this can show is that there is a discrepancy between the demo and other sources for restock times. This does not invalidate the demo as a source of information (ironically enough, the information supports the fact that restock values are done in +9 increments and that they reset if not bought out - a piece of information that comes directly from the demo), and it is absolutely insane to suggest that the demo is an unreliable source. The demo has proven to be an extremely reliable source for countless pieces of information. You are free to go and look back at other mechanics to see this fact.

To contend with this discrepancy, we should investigate how the demo handles respawns in the code, not throw the demo out as a source. It may be as reasonable as the fact that this is a stand-alone server and that the server core handles things differently when there are no other sub-servers around. The fact that we don't know why the discrepancy exists yet is important in trying to explain the demo's position, and jumping to the conclusion that it is wrong on one this subject and therefore wrong when it is at odds with any other source at any time is foolish. Players can be wrong too (see teleporting into house as an example), and unless we have a significant amount of information that is at odds, there is no good reason to believe that there is some discrepancy.

To give you a good example of how player information can be used to show that the demo isn't correct for the era we can look at the magic trap spell which works very differently on the demo from how it works on UOSA. On the demo, it cannot be used on pouches, and the use of the spell automatically makes you a criminal. There is no patch note to show that a change occurred, yet there are countless newsgroup posts that show that the spell can be safely used, and that it can be used on pouches. This does not suddenly make the demo an unreliable source, allowing us to ignore everything that is contained in the demo. What it tells us is that some sort of undocumented change was done to the spell, and the large amount of information citing these new functions confirms that what the demo shows us is incorrect.

Finally, as it stands, the information that has been provided in this thread, and other information from other newsgroup posts suggests that the restock period is closer to 15 to 30 minutes. When Derrick has the opportunity, he can look over this thread, and will probably make a change to the restock time on vendors, due to the volume of information.

[FishinPro]

You do not know for a fact that this demo is exact to the era mid 1998.

Actually we do. See the wiki page for dating the demo. The demo core and the scripts are all dated from 1998, and includes all of the core server changes and script changes from the 4/13/98 update. The demo even includes the script functions for the reputation system launched with the next patch, but it does not include other changes such as the guild warfare changes. This allows us to date the demo between 4/18/98 and 6/11/98.

Thanks for the information Kaivan. I look forward to the change, hopefully.


However, last time I checked a Wiki entry is not proof/fact of anything...

[Kaivan]

This wiki was put together based on the information that we have found either directly in the scripts or the demo core. It isn't being cited simply because it is a wiki, but is being cited because of the information contained within. Batlin, who was responsible for the dating information, can confirm the information on the page, and a great deal of the information is also available for those willing to look at the scripts themselves. You are welcome to investigate this information yourself, but do not conflate the fact that it is on a wiki with the idea that it is some arbitrary claim.

[Faust]

Easy for people that dont understand programming schematics to dismiss the authenticity of the demo. When in fact it's the only 100% accurate version of UO to actually exist. The demo is a fully complete version of UO that even maintains the server code that can be launched just like an emulator and function as is with every script and built in core functionality.