Haly Cycling with Wrestling timer!

[hectorc2w]

i also thing that the hally timer was independant than the wrestling. i dont care what the demo says i still think when you unequiped it would still tick till its ready and hold the state. they probably patched it somewhere and its undocumented

[Faust]

Nope my first language is Swedish

That explains a lot, thanks.

But its still pretty scare that you dont understand when i try to explain to you like i would to a 10 year old kid.

Quite the contrary.

Fully understand your posts but what doesn't make sense is how you seem to disregard facts that have already been proven and include random opinions that are clearly not true.

The feeling is quite mutual on the 10 year old kid comment.

I saw your post in pre cast thread, were you said you and kaivan had made up a new combat system "that suits you obviusly".

Uh oh, you got me... this would benefit me greatly despite the fact that I have not actively played since 2010.

Same goes for you every post i have made you have begun to talk about other stuff instead.

Definitely not an accurate statement.

I have discussed all related mechanics associated with the ability to "weapon cycle" a hally or any weapon for that moment since it's not just a hally that can be cycled with the wrestling delay.

I think you have a problem with realising Swings advance during movement and holding swing could actually be in at the same time.

Again, false.

No different than the equip/arm delay that you tried claiming did not exist.

Players using melee weapons in combat will now hold their swing until their target is in range. Additionally, the timer that determines melee weapon swing times (combat timer) will now advance as the player is moving. Thus, melee weapon users will no longer be required to stop moving before swinging.

i also thing that the hally timer was independant than the wrestling. i dont care what the demo says i still think when you unequiped it would still tick till its ready and hold the state. they probably patched it somewhere and its undocumented

This is clearly not the case Hector.

The equip/arm delay is very clear and it's not just the demo that proves it.

Did you not read my previous response a few posts ago that discusses the equip/arm delay ranging from '97 to present day Ultima Online?

This mechanic is one of the most well informed pieces researched and it's dead on accurate.

Go log into your EA account and test it out yourself. Still exists to this very day.

[Ulfrigg]

This bothers me alot, since you wont care how the pvp will be when you dont play!!!

Uh oh, you got me... this would benefit me greatly despite the fact that I have not actively played since 2010.

This Proof is more my way then yours since its a hot patch after the main patch, witch have been discussed that they patched that bug in with the main patch.

Proof - Publish 5 Update 1 - http://www.uoguide.com/Publish_5 wrote:
Players using melee weapons in combat will now hold their swing until their target is in range. Additionally, the timer that determines melee weapon swing times (combat timer) will now advance as the player is moving. Thus, melee weapon users will no longer be required to stop moving before swinging.

[nightshark]

Honestly Ulfrigg you are wasting your breath. Hally cycling isn't going away unless some serious evidence is found otherwise. That said, a 2.5 -> 3.5 second cycle that is incoming will make a huge difference to tank mages.

[Ulfrigg]

Honestly Ulfrigg you are wasting your breath. Hally cycling isn't going away unless some serious evidence is found otherwise. That said, a 2.5 -> 3.5 second cycle that is incoming will make a huge difference to tank mages.

The heavy evidence is already there, if a patch note and google cant prove it then how are you gona prove it lol? Also if it will be a prep timer again for melee then that 1 second delay wont do any diffrence. But as i said its what he like to see and will probebly happen since he seems to be running this server. That will probebly make his guild come back so they can play a 1vs 1 duel game.

Its kinda sick that you guys cant see even there is plenty of google reports saying that dex monkeys could kill mages, with a prep timer all you can do is stay alive and never kill a mage.

[Ulfrigg]

If patch notes and google chats and most people remebering dont count then i dont know how you can prove anything!!

Also Faust you need to explain how the dex/stamina exploit worked.

[archaicsubrosa77]

We have thoroughly discussed this patch note(including the explanation of the note that FishinPro posted that was originally written on Markee's Dargon's website) and it has nothing to do with the ability to hally cycle.

This patch note was slightly over 20 days after the insta hit patch went live. This included a change transfering weapon delays from a static dex based calculation to the stamina based system. Looking at this from a programmer's stance you could just invision the bugs generated from such a change. Dex rarely changes unlike stamina during combat.
.

So what you are saying is there was no stamina based formula before that? I am calling this one out. Anybody remember a static swing that was dex based? Raising dex would require less harm and heal spams and more skill.

So where is the patch that affects stamina loss from macing? It would have to have been put in in 99 if what you say is true that a stamina system was added later. Also red potions.

You remember the combo you used in game because it was used before instahit got nerfed of course. All roads lead to Trammel, time to go back.

All KILL ALL KILL You know you will say anything to keep Hally Cycling and it would be in later patch notes affecting everything in game if what you said was true. So pull up some of these later patches that support this.

To nerf or to unnerf everything that is the question

[Ulfrigg]

That patch is here, it still dont explain the bug it would cause to make weapons hit faster with the equip!

[quoteColored ore, granting karma, and combat changes Feb 2 1999 10:57AM
Colored ore, ingots and armor go in
Mining Eight new varieties of minerals can now be found.
Each variety offers a unique color.
The different colors can only be found by miners of specific skill levels--only Grandmasters or near Grandmasters can find the rarest mineral, valorite.
Once a vein is located, it will always be at that location from then on. (It behooves miners to conceal this location!) We have seen the feedback from those concerned that these locations will become ambush points. If this develops into a problem, we will make the veins move. For now, however, they will remain where they are found.)
Even a known vein will not always yield the rare mineral.
You cannot combine ore of different colors.
You can only smelt the colored minerals if you meet the Mining skill requirement to do so.
Smelting more difficult minerals will result in a greater skill gain than smelting easy minerals.

Blacksmithing You cannot work the resultant ingots unless you meet the Blacksmithing skill requirement to do so.
You can make colored armor and shields from the colored ingots. You cannot make weapons from colored ingots, and doing so will just make a weapon that looks like one made from iron ingots.
Known issue: making weapons from regular ingots will tell you that you are losing the color, even though it is not a colored ingot.

Combat changes Mace weapons now cause stamina loss and extra damage to armor when they hit an opponent.
Your swing rate or firing rate with all weapons is now dependent on your current stamina, instead of your dexterity.
Damage for your blow is now assessed on your opponent on the start of the swing, instead of at the end. This change makes a fast connection less of an advantage in melee combat. This will apply to wrestling and attacks made by monsters as well.
Equipping a weapon now causes a short "prep time" before you can start swinging.
Being good at anatomy will give a bonus to the damage you do in combat.

Changes to magic Meditation goes in. This new skill allows faster regeneration of mana.
Your mana regeneration rate is now dependent on your level of Meditation skill, your intelligence stat, and the amount of armor you are wearing. This is termed the "passive use" of the skill.
The skill can be used from the skill gump, or via a macro.
The title associated with this skill is "Mage".
You cannot be holding anything except a spellbook, nor be wearing metallic or bone armor to use it. You also cannot be drunk at the time.
If you succeed, your mana regeneration rate is doubled from your usual rate while you meditate.
You stop meditating if you do basically anything, including using another skill, trying to hide, moving, casting a spell, using or trying to pick up an object, etc.
A problem with the polymorph spell getting "stuck" was fixed. Spellbooks affected will be retroactively fixed.
The Magic Reflect spell now gives an error if the target already has Magic Reflect on, and does not consume mana or reagents.
The magic lock spell now works against unsecure locked down containers.
So does the magic untrap spell.
Magic unlock and magic untrap will no longer work on secure containers.

Housing and furnishing changes The one-room house which ramdomly changed appearance every time you tried to place it no longer does so.
Holiday trees and ornaments are deleted. Holiday tree deeds are unaffected, but are disabled until the holiday season next year.
You can no longer deed a locked-down holiday tree.
You can no longer attempt to pick the lock on a secure container.
The "large smithy" has been renamed to "large house with patio."
Significant lockdown changes were made. Lockdown is no longer done with keys. Instead, it is done with spoken commands. These commands work only for the house owner. "I wish to lock this down" gives a targeting cursor and does basic lockdown.
"I wish to release this" gives a targeting cursor and unsecures and releases the object from lockdown.
"I wish to secure this" gives a targeting cursor and locks down and secures the object if it's a container. I wish to unsecure this" gives a targeting cursor and only unsecures the container. It does not release it from lockdown.



Granting karma to other players Saying "I honor thee" will bring up a targeting cursor.
Targeting another player will remove karma points from you and give some karma points to your target.
You will automatically turn to face them and bow. Known issue: there's a graphical glitch if you are polymorphed and honor a player. This will be fixed shortly.
You have to have a positive karma of a certain level to do this.

Other skills Using bandages will now unhide you.
Mapmaking now has a skill delay.
There is now a blacksmith NPC guild, and blacksmith guildmasters will appear in appropriate shops and halls.

Miscellaneous Hair dye is now permanent.
The error message given when you selected the last color on each page of hairdye is now fixed.
Some cave entrances to the Lost Lands have been slightly adjusted in terms of where you end up when you exit.
Poisonous creatures should start poisoning at the correct frequency again.
Some map errors were corrected.
Redeeded vendor deeds will now weigh 90 stones. They can now be looted as well (they will drop to your corpse). Vendors must now be emptied before they can be redeeded.




][/quote]




http://wiki.uosecondage.com/1999_Patch_Notes

[archaicsubrosa77]

Can we have a link? When was the swing delay added after equipping, before this patch or after? We can narrow it down to be sure by looking at other patch notes. Where is the red potion patch? When was the cooking skill added? There is no need for food if there was no stamina loss.

Indeed if all weapons just were unequipped and equipped resetting their timer to full it would have been known way before. It had to be the wrestling timer.

I really don't think Stamina had to do with how far you could run on foot...that's kind of silly, when were mounts added?

Most importantly...how can you outrun arrows And why must you hide to snoop when you hid to stealth it makes absolutely no sense.

They were reverting everything back slowly to introduce UOR in my opinion in order to rework the system for school age newbs who wanted to fight monsters not murderers. Unless we are going to do UOR the way it was it's time to go back.

Nerfing everything sucks.

The Second Age How It Should Have Been...I am telling you it will draw crowds. Maybe a better name but same premises.

[archaicsubrosa77]

There is not ONE single person here that can answer this questions because it's not physically possible due to the time constraints and the known mechanics that existed. That leaves us with but only one solution... hallys could be cycled by cirumventing the standard delay by some means. There are SEVERAL articles presented here in the past ranging from google groups and a Japanese player posting on his guild site explaining the ability to hally cycle or use the "zero delay attack" that the Japs dubbed it. This mechanic HAS to exist in order for the explosion, ebolt, hally combo to be possible

Thats my point the haly continued to tick while being unequiped and then it held the timer witch made it possible to equip hit, with the zero delay attack aka insta hit.

Also that combo was so easy to do that everyone used it, even new players.

Are you saying the weapon's timer was still going while unequipped or it readjusted to where it had left off holding the timer on it? The outrunning of arrows seemed late in the game when connection speeds improved.

I dont care about the hally timer I just need an excuse as to why we should unnerf other things Before all the nerfs people seemed to have a lot more fun when it was the golden age of UOSA and that matters more then recreating a certain point in time in my opinion.

Do you really care that events were inaccurate? Does the world crumble below your feet like it did when we put in all the nerfs and took them out? After all the nerfs people just did events because the tank mage was like your only option. When the events left a lot of people took to other servers to explore. A lot came back, but you should ask why they left in the first place, and why they came back too.

You created an era, bravo. Now I think you should think of another project...fix its mistakes and improve on it without destroying its feel. In that way we can perfect gameplay and I think even expand the map, things of that nature. I think if there is anywhere that can make the perfect UO its the people here.

After you stop arguing about what nerf to recreate next

We can see where things went wrong as you relived it. That's important. I mean was the whole point to piece together a puzzle or create a game people like to play? We should compile the things we liked and didnt like, not just how it was but how we would like it to be...or think it should have been.

I mean if you are ever up to that...it could still be second age but more fluid and even open up to other lands and minus all the nerfs. The Second Age Expanded?? Just a thought.

As long as you make it cheap and pay to play (5 dollars even a month) I think if you did it well you can get sponsors and licenses. They will allow franchising. Maybe integrating domains where it would be possible for player based lands to be created under the same laws and guidelines if it were possible to do so in a way that would be user friendly for larger donations. You would get a castle and then the land space would depend on contribution in creating that part of the Expanded world. Same world just broader and more monsters created...a world where it is made also by the players themselves. Towns, Dungeons, Wildernesses etc all dependent on the donations.

It's just a team needs to be put together in order to do that including those who would be responsible for monster creation and treasure tables for them etc. and I think you need licensing or at least permission, present it as an experiment. (you might need a user interface like a moongate to get to player generated lands where the mobiles who are hostile would only be hostile to those not guilded to the lord of that domain)

Ultima meets farmville I know sick right lol but if it stayed in context to the second age (minus all the god awful nerfs) I think people would eat it up.

[Blaise]

Wow archaic, you went from 'not really in accordance with the goals of the shard' to 'Holy hell, wtf' in a matter of about three sentences.

The people of this shard HAVE gone on to create 'the perfect UO', several times. Some still run, others don't and more will come another day.

UOSA is and always should be, what it was built to be. An 'I don't care what you want, this is what it was' replica of the mechanical functional level of the date selected by the creator. Trying to perfect it is possibly the greatest challenge a shard admin could ever take on. Trying to appease the masses and not just normal people...but people who play UO! Some of the most needy, whiney, demanding and insulting brood ever to disgrace the internet. Derrick has done a fine job here and keeping as firm a grasp on the core goal as possible is what makes the shard what it is today.

I like the automotive analogy regarding classic cars. Some people want an old Mustang, bone stock, as it came from the factory. There is truly something blessed there and a golden nostalgia that cannot be matched. Others want that same general nostalgic feeling, but would rather the thing actually perform and be highly functional, so they tack on the disc brakes, fuel injection, good suspension, leather and a nice A/V system.

I love the bone stock classic for a jaunt on occasion, but if I'm gonna be flogging this thing every day, you better believe I want more modern/logical equipment under the hood and elseware. Or in the case of shards, code.


Stop trying to make UOSA what it is not. It is doing a damn fine job in accordance with its goals and still has work to do to get there. Be proud that Derrick is not dissuaded into altering that course. It is a difficult position to take and follow, just as the alternative would be.

[archaicsubrosa77]

I was suggesting another project is all after you rebuilt your model T....

I would keep the core here but expand out to player generated worlds is what I was saying.

Admit it, hiding again after you stealth to snoop makes absolutely no sense. What were these people thinking?

Things of that nature. The Second Age was done before in 98, it was done again now.

Do it better now.

I definitely like this era though I feel somethings need fixed, I think we need to build a better hamster wheel. I think we should gather behind Derrick to push for sponsorship and licensing.

I am not at all bashing the server, I am presenting an idea project we all can have part in if we want to and if its possible. Because we loved the world here so much to pay in order to expand on it. The ever changing world of Ultima. Where you can be dungeon master and lord of your own domain.

[Faust]

I was suggesting another project is all after you rebuilt your model T....

I would keep the core here but expand out to player generated worlds is what I was saying.

This isn't UOSA "the way it should be" and it never will be.

Derrick has stated many times that not one single person, including him or anyone else, knows how the game "should have been" in the end. There are plenty of shards out there that aim at this "what it should be" goal and fail miserably time after time. This era, the game, is what it was and that is exactly what UOSA aims to replicate by reverse engineering the available data in creating it. Quit pretending like you know what this game should have been, because that is your opinion and that game only exists in your world. What this game should have been to you is not the case for anyone else and vice versa.

Also Faust you need to explain how the dex/stamina exploit worked.

No one mentioned any "exact" exploit. Again, please re-read the discussion because you are jumping to conclusions and false accusations once more. Perhaps, it's the language barrier... don't know. However, once again I will have to reiterate my same very comment... Clearly stated that it's highly probable that an exploit was fashioned during the transitition of dex based static swing caculations when it changed to a robust dynamic stamina based swing caculation. Looking at this change from a computer programmer's stance it's highly possible to create an exploit from such a change creating an arm/disarm exploit.

We may never know exactly what the arm/disarm exploit really was and that is the reality of the matter.

I have generated a couple models with some of my combat timer algorithms that replicate such a bug. However, there is no real way to know what the bug actually was but one thing is for certain... it's not what you are claiming it to be here. We know that "hally cycling" was possible due to the numerous articles AFTER this patch explaining it. So stop with the monotony, constant responses on the subject matter.

The authenticity of the equip/arm delay resetting your current weapon delay is enough proof in itself. There is no possible way to perform an exp, eb, hally combo when your swing delay gets reset during the equip process if there was no means to circumvent that delay in some manner.

Stop, you are simply trolling and beating a dead horse at this point.

[bushman]

I was suggesting another project is all after you rebuilt your model T....

I would keep the core here but expand out to player generated worlds is what I was saying.

Admit it, hiding again after you stealth to snoop makes absolutely no sense. What were these people thinking?

Things of that nature. The Second Age was done before in 98, it was done again now.

Do it better now.

I definitely like this era though I feel somethings need fixed, I think we need to build a better hamster wheel. I think we should gather behind Derrick to push for sponsorship and licensing.

I am not at all bashing the server, I am presenting an idea project we all can have part in if we want to and if its possible. Because we loved the world here so much to pay in order to expand on it. The ever changing world of Ultima. Where you can be dungeon master and lord of your own domain.

[Blaise]

I'll definitely agree that many things in this era defy logic or common sense. Many people have left because of it and many people stay to exploit the era to the fullest extent. Others just tough it out because they're afraid of not being pixel lords on login somewhere else.

To each their own. This is a strong shard and should only change to suit the goal it has been aiming for since inception.