Haly Cycling with Wrestling timer!

[Ulfrigg]

Found the patch note were they fixed it discuss..

Mini-update with small fixes Feb 26 1999 11:25AM
House owners and friends will be able to instantly reveal anyone hidden in their house, regardless of skill level, on the grounds that they know their house better than any stranger. This will not cause the skill to go up.
Cutting up fish will work correctly.
Fixes for pets, hirelings, and summoned creatures not obeying commands will go in. In particular:
Hirelings will not be affected at all by your taming skill.
Summoned creatures won't be either.
Pets will now function correctly. This is to say, higher level tamers will be able to order around powerful creatures easily, whereas lower level tamers will have difficulty getting them to obey orders.
The time your character must exist before being allowed to join the Thieves Guild has been shortened.
Adding items to a trash can past the container limit will cause the instant deletion of everything in the trash can.
You will only be able to steal specific items from enemy guild members, instead of only being able to random steal from them.
An exploit for getting slow weapons to hit faster has been fixed.
The mana drain and mana vampire spells have had the chance of being resisted raised substantially.
The stealth skill now will give a message when used successfully.
A problem with gate travel scrolls was corrected.

[archaicsubrosa77]

Anyone up for a fencing match

[archaicsubrosa77]

No one wanted to comment on this

Oh yeah right...Like I was saying how it should have been not how it was right?

Cutting bandages one at a time is okay but when it comes to insta-hit you guys stop in your tracks.

We want cut all at once bandages and purple potion chains

[Xantim]

hotfix naaaaao!

[FishinPro]

This proves nothing...that much is obvious.

[archaicsubrosa77]

This proves nothing...that much is obvious.

Oh you know of another exploit besides cycling weapons that existed in era? Prove that first then you have an argument. We want "all kill" too...

Let's be honest you want to keep Instahit. So as it should have been would be a good motto, stealth and snoop...come on.

We have to come to the realization all these nerfs led to Trammel. Tank Mages should not be the only class that is exempt.

It's all or nothing.

[FishinPro]

Here is how you start to prove things...

2/26/99:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgr ... UTct1w4n4J

10) The disarm/arm exploit to get slow weapons to hit faster has been fixed. It
will not be to your advantage to disarm/rearm a weapon.

[FishinPro]

This proves nothing...that much is obvious.

Oh you know of another exploit besides cycling weapons that existed in era? Prove that first then you have an argument. We want "all kill" too...

Let's be honest you want to keep Instahit. So as it should have been would be a good motto, stealth and snoop...come on.

We have to come to the realization all these nerfs led to Trammel. Tank Mages should not be the only class that is exempt.

It's all or nothing.

You seem like your the type of person who created their own 'Jump to Conclusions Mat' and you use it often...

[Faust]

We have thoroughly discussed this patch note(including the explanation of the note that FishinPro posted that was originally written on Markee's Dargon's website) and it has nothing to do with the ability to hally cycle.

This patch note was slightly over 20 days after the insta hit patch went live. This included a change transfering weapon delays from a static dex based calculation to the stamina based system. Looking at this from a programmer's stance you could just invision the bugs generated from such a change. Dex rarely changes unlike stamina during combat.

There has been an extensive amount of evidence that has mounted over the years proving "weapon cycling" was very much possible. There are descritpions of the mechanic from a Japanese server that the asians nick named it "zero delay attack" instead of "weapon cycle" here. Google groups have some vague descriptions of it such as the one posted by a "Lars Friedich" mentioning the "swing time bug when casting spells/arming a hally" etc... The Japanese web site explaining the tactic in the Fall of 1999(well past this patch note's date) offers a much better description including multiple other known bugs such as the double hit.

This leaves me to the same question that I ask everyone on here that attempts to dispute weapon cycling.

We all know that you could sync an explosion, ebolt, and hally relatively close during the era. This is actually an indisputable fact among all of us here. Topple this with the known era accurate equip/arm delay that resets your combat timer to the start after lifting or equipping a piece of armor or weapon.

How can you unload an explosion, ebolt, and hally when lifting that hally resets a standard tank mage's weapon delay back to the start of 20 ticks(5 seconds) if there was no way to shorten that delay?

There will not be one person here that will be able to answer that question because it's physically not possible.

[hectorc2w]

i think we all understand that Faust. Why is it that fights here are mostly harm harm hally hit over and over while it wasnt the case at all in 99?

[Faust]

The responses above are quite the contrary Hector.

You may know that this may be the case but based on the responses above clearly suggest that it was not possible at all to cycle a hally when this is very much untrue. Weapon cycling in its current form may not be era accurate at the moment but that doesn't mean it didn't exist and needs to be wiped away based on the current inaccuracies.

We really need to just get a proper era accurate combat timer working here.

[hectorc2w]

yea that I agree. it did exist but I do not think in the current form that we have on uosa. now I can't find any proof to support that

[Ulfrigg]

We have thoroughly discussed this patch note(including the explanation of the note that FishinPro posted that was originally written on Markee's Dargon's website) and it has nothing to do with the ability to hally cycle.

This patch note was slightly over 20 days after the insta hit patch went live. This included a change transfering weapon delays from a static dex based calculation to the stamina based system. Looking at this from a programmer's stance you could just invision the bugs generated from such a change. Dex rarely changes unlike stamina during combat.

There has been an extensive amount of evidence that has mounted over the years proving "weapon cycling" was very much possible. There are descritpions of the mechanic from a Japanese server that the asians nick named it "zero delay attack" instead of "weapon cycle" here. Google groups have some vague descriptions of it such as the one posted by a "Lars Friedich" mentioning the "swing time bug when casting spells/arming a hally" etc... The Japanese web site explaining the tactic in the Fall of 1999(well past this patch note's date) offers a much better description including multiple other known bugs such as the double hit.

This leaves me to the same question that I ask everyone on here that attempts to dispute weapon cycling.

We all know that you could sync an explosion, ebolt, and hally relatively close during the era. This is actually an indisputable fact among all of us here. Topple this with the known era accurate equip/arm delay that resets your combat timer to the start after lifting or equipping a piece of armor or weapon.

How can you unload an explosion, ebolt, and hally when lifting that hally resets a standard tank mage's weapon delay back to the start of 20 ticks(5 seconds) if there was no way to shorten that delay?

There will not be one person here that will be able to answer that question because it's physically not possible.

Ok you are clearly not talking about the same thing, that fix was to prevent you to disarm and get the wrestling timer instead of the halberd delay. That patch note has nothing to do with the weapon cycling or insta hit at all, why you think im are talking about that i dont know

I never said that the weapon stoped cycle when you disarm it, only that it dint switch the halberd timer to a wrestling timer aka getting a short timer instead of the long timer.

10) The disarm/arm exploit to get slow weapons to hit faster has been fixed. It
will not be to your advantage to disarm/rearm a weapon

This clearly explains that you cant switch the timer when disarm/arming, if you think thats about dex vs stamina or insta hit or weapon cycling then your out ridding your bike in the woods.

[Faust]

Ulfrigg, you clearly do not understand how the actual combat timer worked on production shards.

There is no "individual timer" for each weapon.

There are two variables attached to your character "SwingCounter" and "SwingState" that determines your combat swings. The "SwingCounter" represents your swing timer in a tick value based measurement. This variable increments by 1 every tick(0.25s) based on the main global timer. There are two methods that handle swings called the AdvanceSwingState() function and the CombatHeartBeat() function. The two determines various values that determine your combat timer and swing advancements.

This is how the original combat timer works.

• The global timer calls the CombatHeartBeat() method every tick(0.25s).
• SwingCounter += 1
• Check for a combatant
• If true --> calls the AdvanceSwingState() function, ends the method if false.
• AdvanceSwingState() is called if true and starts now.
• SwingDelay = 60000 / ((100 + Stamina) * Weapon Speed) // Stamina used to be Dexterity making it a static variable
• SecondState = 4 (6 for melee during pret2a)
• SecondState = SwingDelay - SecondState
• FirstState = SecondState - 4
• NewState = SwingState
• if SwingCounter >= FirstState --> NewState = 1
• if SwingCounter >= SecondState --> NewState = 2
• if SwingCounter > SwingDelay --> NewState = 3
• if NewState = 3 --> SwingState = 0 // resets your swing
• return NewState
• Goes back to the CombatHeartBeat() method after obtaining the value for NewState
• if OldState != NewState AND NewState >= 2 // != means not equals
• if NewState = 2 --> Animation if you are using a bow.
• if NewState = 3 --> Animation if you are using a melee weapon AND damage for both
• Repeat the entire process on the next tick....

That is how the combat timer worked on production shards(using insta hit) and the same structure was used during UOR based on several different patch notes that reiterate the same code structure. Implementing insta hit into the original timer is beyond a piece of cake by simple modifying the animation calls in the CombatHeartBeat() function.

The mechanic that allowed you to cycle hallies was the addition of the "prep time" feature added during the insta hit patch.

This so called "switching" as you mentioned in between weapons makes absolutely no sense when relating it to the actual code used by OSI/EA. The counter had no association with the weapon outside of being used against the SwingDelay variable that actually determined a weapon's speed. Going from a dex based caculation that NEVER changed unless your dex changed which was rare to a caculation that changed constantly based on stamina is quite drastic using a lot more processing power during the calculation.

You are going under the assumption that the combat timer did everything on the back end when it was actually the complete opposite being on the front end.

RunUO made the same mistake when they implemented their combat timer based on the weapon that was no where remotely close to being the way OSI/EA constructed the actual combat timer.

[Ulfrigg]

Ill try explain it easy for you then (the numbers arent acc that im using)

I have a Haly swing time 4 sec
I can wrestle swing time 2 sec

I hit my opponent with the haly "bam" timer starts ticking for 4 sec for my next swing, but instead of waiting for that i disarm my haly and then half my swing timer is gone since by using that exploit it switch the timer to the wrestling. Thats how it works here now and thats what that patch fixed.

Going from a dex based caculation that NEVER changed unless your dex changed which was rare to a caculation that changed constantly based on stamina is quite drastic using a lot more processing power during the calculation.

Explain how this "bug" worked that there isnt any documents of
To me it sounds that if it never changed it was still based on dex? If so then what would disarming/arming do to the dex since there arent any weapons that raise dex or lower it?