UO Second Age

I read something that made me believe that if I steal from someone, then they attack me, if I end up killing them in defense of that attack I can take a count?

Only if you are caught and are visibly permagray to them and they remain blue to you. If you attack a grey player you will never take a count.
If a player is blue, and you attack them you will be eligible for a count, unless that player is a member of the thieves guild, or is fully healed before they die.

There's little possibility of accidentally taking a count on a thief.

awww well that is no fun :/ Half the fun of being a thief is getting them to attack you.

To elaborate on this, the reason that defending yourself can result in you receiving a murder count is because stealing is considered both an aggressive (most of the time) and criminal action. If you are ever noticed stealing from a player by anyone, the theft itself is considered an aggressive action, and for 2 minutes any retaliation that the victim takes will be considered defense against your aggressive action. Like other aggressive actions, if you do any damage or place any detrimental effects on the victim (paralyze, stat debuffs, poison) to the victim before the aggressor flag wears off, you will be eligible for a murder. However, after the aggressor flag wears off, the perma-grey flag is the only flag that exists until death. If the victim attacks you during this time frame, you can defend yourself without fear of receiving a murder count from the victim.

In a nutshell: avoid your victim for 2 minutes, then if you want to come back and they attack, you will not receive a murder for defending yourself.

I follow, but I can't say I agree. There is a difference between a thief and murderer. Players should have to think twice before attacking a thief "Can I really kill this guy?"; Not "At least if he kills me I can count him".

To me this blurs the line between thieves and murders and just seems like noob protection which is incredibly lame. Is that true to the era of this shard?

Plus don't you get kicked out of the thieves guild for taking a count anyways, cause these two rules together really nerf the class.

Regardless of whether there is a belief that it should be one way or another, the fact is that this is how stealing worked during T2A. Since that is the case, it works the same here.

Kaivan wrote:Regardless of whether there is a belief that it should be one way or another, the fact is that this is how stealing worked during T2A. Since that is the case, it works the same here.

Ah well works for me then, still it is harsh on the thieves.

So...Just to clarify. If im on my thief w/Gm deadly poisoned blades and i steal from someone and he attacks...i auto attack back, poison him and head for the hills...he dies...do i get kicked outa the thieves guild for the murder?

Arcott Ramathorn wrote:So...Just to clarify. If im on my thief w/Gm deadly poisoned blades and i steal from someone and he attacks...i auto attack back, poison him and head for the hills...he dies...do i get kicked outa the thieves guild for the murder?

Not that I disagree with the point you're trying to make, but you just stole, your hands should be empty.

Arcott Ramathorn wrote:So...Just to clarify. If im on my thief w/Gm deadly poisoned blades and i steal from someone and he attacks...i auto attack back, poison him and head for the hills...he dies...do i get kicked outa the thieves guild for the murder?

No that is incorrect. You will not auto attack back if the attacker is blue to you.

I have been in the situation many times. There is pretty much no way you will unintentionally get a count. You will always see the criminal warning pop up.