[Era Accuracy] Bank Checks

[Derrick]

Hate to have to state this one again, but Runebooks were indeed pre-2000

Again, when forced to choose which accuracy or bug issue I'm going to work on I'm more interested in making mechanics corrections that will please (or effect) the larger portion of the population. I agree that checks are out of our target timeframe and the removal of them will certainly bring about more of that "Era Feel" for good or bad. The only personal judgement I would pass on this correction is When to fix it, our mantra of era accuracy (which includes mechanical constistency) really does demand this be corrected.

It should also be mentioned, UOA was EA sactioned software in the latter part of 1999

[Altay]

If this shard wants to be 'era accurate', a big part of UO was getting banned for macroing. I've been suspended on Catskills for simply macroing Hiding in some remote location in Moonglow before, and Yes OSI T2A had built in game mechanics for DETECTING macro'ers, because there is no way someone reported me. If this shard wants to 'truly be T2A accurate', then all un-attended macroing has to be illegal on this shard. I'd also like to point out, that this wasn't a one time thing. After my first suspension, I started macroing another computer, so I could check up on it. I had my character teleported to the 'GM room' numerous times only to be asked 'How are you?' and other silly questions by GMs, to prove i'm at my computer.

I think getting rid of checks will only make a lot of users frustrated to the point of leaving the shard. Me personally? It won't make a big difference to me, I can live with it either way, but I feel it's going to hurt the community, as this is a DRASTIC change, and I'd hate to see the playerbase decline.

[Faust]

Banning was a policy not a game mechanic.

There is a distinct difference between the two. One can be replicated the other can not. For example, macroing was a bannable offense too. However, each shard was completely different. Baja wasn't very strict on macroing at all. I have heard other shards being very strict. Your experiences of a particular policy would vary greatly from one person to the next.

This is why in my opinion that Derrick develops his policy based on the principles that he believes in just like the seperate GM's did on their relative shard they were policing when it comes down to policy making.

I must have had elite macroing skills to bypass that anti-macro code... I ran a macro pretty much non-stop every single night during t2a. It wouldn't matter if it was macroing resources through my mining house walls, acquiring skills on a new char, or macroing counts. I was never caught ONE time for macroing during both the pre-t2a and t2a eras. The same thing goes for UOE. I used UOE from '98 all the way up until it was wiped out by OSI in early '00...

Ironically the only time that I ever was banned was from a hidden GM that seen me say "Here comes some japs", and the second being a perma ban for no reason at all just because my account was logged by my cousins IP when he visisted the UO Prostitute exploit site. We would LAN together when playing from time to time. However, since his IP was associated with my account from simply logging on from his hyouse it was banned for guilt by association pretty much. Two of our friends also was banned from logging into their accounts previously from his house before that incident too. OSI policy making was corrupt and very flawed by far.

[Kaivan]

If this shard wants to be 'era accurate', a big part of UO was getting banned for macroing. I've been suspended on Catskills for simply macroing Hiding in some remote location in Moonglow before, and Yes OSI T2A had built in game mechanics for DETECTING macro'ers, because there is no way someone reported me. If this shard wants to 'truly be T2A accurate', then all un-attended macroing has to be illegal on this shard. I'd also like to point out, that this wasn't a one time thing. After my first suspension, I started macroing another computer, so I could check up on it. I had my character teleported to the 'GM room' numerous times only to be asked 'How are you?' and other silly questions by GMs, to prove i'm at my computer.

I think getting rid of checks will only make a lot of users frustrated to the point of leaving the shard. Me personally? It won't make a big difference to me, I can live with it either way, but I feel it's going to hurt the community, as this is a DRASTIC change, and I'd hate to see the playerbase decline.

This goes a long way towards exemplifying the varied results that people attained on various servers with respect to macroing. I myself macroed a great deal while on OSI servers during both T2A and later using 8x8 during UOR. While I maintained the policy of always remaining at my computer, but usually engaging in some other task, I never once ran into a single GM for any instance of macroing at all. This tells me that enforcement of the anti-macro policy (if there were built in mechanics for detecting macroers they were poorly utilized at best) was conducted on a shard to shard basis.

[noxmonk]

If this shard wants to be 'era accurate', a big part of UO was getting banned for macroing. I've been suspended on Catskills for simply macroing Hiding in some remote location in Moonglow before, and Yes OSI T2A had built in game mechanics for DETECTING macro'ers, because there is no way someone reported me. If this shard wants to 'truly be T2A accurate', then all un-attended macroing has to be illegal on this shard. I'd also like to point out, that this wasn't a one time thing. After my first suspension, I started macroing another computer, so I could check up on it. I had my character teleported to the 'GM room' numerous times only to be asked 'How are you?' and other silly questions by GMs, to prove i'm at my computer.

I think getting rid of checks will only make a lot of users frustrated to the point of leaving the shard. Me personally? It won't make a big difference to me, I can live with it either way, but I feel it's going to hurt the community, as this is a DRASTIC change, and I'd hate to see the playerbase decline.

This goes a long way towards exemplifying the varied results that people attained on various servers with respect to macroing. I myself macroed a great deal while on OSI servers during both T2A and later using 8x8 during UOR. While I maintained the policy of always remaining at my computer, but usually engaging in some other task, I never once ran into a single GM for any instance of macroing at all. This tells me that enforcement of the anti-macro policy (if there were built in mechanics for detecting macroers they were poorly utilized at best) was conducted on a shard to shard basis.

The policy is still policy, whether or not people performed their duties appropriately has no effect on the actual policy itself.

[Kraarug]

If this shard wants to be 'era accurate', a big part of UO was getting banned for macroing. I've been suspended on Catskills for simply macroing Hiding in some remote location in Moonglow before, and Yes OSI T2A had built in game mechanics for DETECTING macro'ers, because there is no way someone reported me. If this shard wants to 'truly be T2A accurate', then all un-attended macroing has to be illegal on this shard. I'd also like to point out, that this wasn't a one time thing. After my first suspension, I started macroing another computer, so I could check up on it. I had my character teleported to the 'GM room' numerous times only to be asked 'How are you?' and other silly questions by GMs, to prove i'm at my computer.

I think getting rid of checks will only make a lot of users frustrated to the point of leaving the shard. Me personally? It won't make a big difference to me, I can live with it either way, but I feel it's going to hurt the community, as this is a DRASTIC change, and I'd hate to see the playerbase decline.

On Chessy I use to macro up 3xGMs and sell the accounts on eBay. I didn't this all the time and most everyday. It was a good source of $130 per account.

Obvisouly I had to do this unattended most of the time and I was jailed only once for macroing on my main at a friends house with 3 others.

Faust is right, policing was spotty between shards and between GMs on the same shard.

The problem with Macro policy is that the cat is already out of the bag. To make it illegal now would only make it unfair and more difficult for new players and, although most shards prize their veterans, the fact is that an influx of New Players is what keeps a shard alive.

This game is already very hard for new players to start off in and a change in Macro policy would only make it harder. It's fail on start.

[Altay]

Not being caught doesn't change the fact that macroing was illegal during the T2A Era, the same era this server has to replicate. How about exploiting then? Why is exploiting illegal here and not macroing? Exploiting was also illegal on OSI T2A. Is it perfectly okay, if I hack my character and get 10000 strength 100000 int and a leet weapon that 1 shots everyone through my elite h4xing skills?


Edit: oh, it would make it unfair / inconvenient? Well, It's 'T2A ACCURATE'. Wouldn't getting rid of checks TODAY be UNFAIR as well? The cat is out of the bag here to. New players won't be able to 'easily make big purchases' while EVERY OTHER PLAYER on the shard who has been here had the opportunity to USE CHECKS and make big purchases safely.

[Faust]

Simple question Altay.

What server should we replicate in regard to the macroing policy?

[noxmonk]

Simple question Altay.

What server should we replicate in regard to the macroing policy?

You don't have to replicate a server for it to be enforced and T2A accurate. How a policy was enforced does not change the fact that it was indeed policy. What you are asking is should the staff do, or not do their job? Which would change to a shard by shard basis which is the only question you could really append to the discussion with any sort of validity.

[Faust]

Your argument is completely baseless and has no substance to it at all. Not all shards enforced the no macroing policy on OSI servers. It simply came down to the staff that policed the shard. For all you know macroing is bannable here and that the staff is laxed over the issue just like on previous OSI shards in the past.

Again, you CANNOT replicate policy no matter what you think.

The only thing that you CAN replicate are the game mechanics that existed.

This is a simple fact rather you want to believe it or not.

[BlackFoot]

all ya gotta do is say macroing is illegal, and never do anythign about it and its era accurate

i think having checks removed will be great for areas like the $$$ port (named yet) and established merchants will have that much more on their plate people who dont use forums 24/7 can go there and find a 3rd party trader or post on the bulletin board etc,

[Kaivan]

Not being caught doesn't change the fact that macroing was illegal during the T2A Era, the same era this server has to replicate. How about exploiting then? Why is exploiting illegal here and not macroing? Exploiting was also illegal on OSI T2A. Is it perfectly okay, if I hack my character and get 10000 strength 100000 int and a leet weapon that 1 shots everyone through my elite h4xing skills?


Edit: oh, it would make it unfair / inconvenient? Well, It's 'T2A ACCURATE'. Wouldn't getting rid of checks TODAY be UNFAIR as well? The cat is out of the bag here to. New players won't be able to 'easily make big purchases' while EVERY OTHER PLAYER on the shard who has been here had the opportunity to USE CHECKS and make big purchases safely.

Since matters of macroing and exploitation are matters of policy and aren't matters of the physical game mechanics, their enforcement is just as open now as it was on OSI servers. The fact that we choose to actively deal with exploits while openly allow macroing of particular types is consistent with that behavior. As for the effect that a lack of bank checks will have on new players, there have been several patches in the history of UOSA, and on OSI servers, that benefited those who used that particular function before a patch, while others were denied that luxury because they never bothered to use that particular mechanic or they started after the change (this is especially true regarding rares and many mechanics in game including invulnerable NPCs). In a nutshell, we can't be responsible for any theoretical loss that a new person will deal with when compared with older players, and the only reasonable option is to handle it on a "first come first serve" basis.

[noxmonk]

Your argument is completely baseless and has no substance to it at all. Not all shards enforced banning macroing. It simply came down to the staff that policed the shard. For all you know is that macroing is bannable here and that the staff is laxed over the issue just like on other OSI shards.

Again, you CANNOT replicate policy no matter what you think.

The only thing that you CAN replicate are the game mechanics that existed.

This is a simple fact rather you want to believe it or not.

No need to get so testy because you posed invalid questions. The policy has been shown to existed at the time. Therefore it would be era accurate. What you are trying to refute is that it was not policy, but are merely showing that GM's did not do their jobs appropriately according to policy, which is not a valid point.

Furthemore, you can indeed replicate policy. If you post it as policy, then it is policy. You're on a slippery slope, you may want to rephrase your forum anger into more appropriate discourse.

[Altay]

The Staff here can easily post on the homepage, ALL UNATTENDED MACROING IS ILLEGAL AND WILL GET YOU BANNED, then they can CHOOSE to IGNORE their own policy, but as it stands, the current policy isn't T2A accurate. Now we're just picking and choosing WHICH policies will be enforced [Macroing vs Exploiting]. Both should be disallowed to be more T2A accurate.

The point is, whether you'd like to acknowledge it or not, the purpose of allowing macroing on this shard is for CONVENIENCE. Just like bank checks would only make things more convenient for everyone.

[BlackFoot]

Think macroing shoudl be its own thread and this one should stick with bank checks and trade windows