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 Post subject: Re: Patch 127: March 19, 2010 - Magic Items, Core Timer, bugs
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:49 am 
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MatronDeWinter wrote:
Mikel123 wrote:
Looks like the best way to handle this is to set up an Arm/Dress function for the reflect item, then set a hotkey to toggle it. I actually don't think this change will have too much of an impact on players that were doing something like this already.

When you arm the reflect item, will it still give you the animation & sound of reflect being activated? That's what I'm curious about, since it's no longer effectively casting the spell on you like it used to.


That's a good point! Does the attached "reflctor" script contain the animation/sound data for the application? If there is no indication, this could effectively be a MagicReflect boost.


No, none of scripts contain the animation or sound information when wearing charged items. That requires an entirely separate line of code which does not exist in the demo and didn't exist on OSI servers well past AoS.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 127: March 19, 2010 - Magic Items, Core Timer, bugs
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 8:32 am 
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Derrick wrote:
SirChandestroy wrote:
Not all invisibility rings worked by double-clicking. It was only the ones with low charges that allowed that. I'm not sure what the number of charges cut-off was, but I think it was around 5.

I remember having 2 different bags of invisibility rings though, one was full of ones that had a lot of charges and couldn't be used by double-clicking, the other was full of low-charge rings that could be used by double-clicking.

This is interesting. There May have been two types on invisibility rings then, a wearable, and a useable (teleport is a useable).
Did the ones which were double clickable apply the effect when you equiped them?.


I do know for sure that there were some that wouldn't work by double-clicking and that the ones that did work with double-click were low-charge rings, however when it comes to how that worked, my memory is a little foggy.

I think that all low-charge (5 or 6 charges or below I'm pretty sure) rings were usable by double-clicking, even if they originally had more charges, but this part I'm not 100% sure about, it may have just been the ones that had the low charges to begin with.

I'm also pretty sure (not quite 100%, but pretty sure) that they both worked by wearing them as well...the ones that worked by double-clicking just had an bonus way to use them.

I tried doing a little searching for some confirmation of this, but didn't find anything. My houses finally fell on Atlantic about 6 months ago or I'd have a bunch of them to test with there, I had huge stock of both types, but the stock was in one of my remaining houses...


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 127: March 19, 2010 - Magic Items, Core Timer, bugs
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:57 am 
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Kaivan wrote:
No, none of scripts contain the animation or sound information when wearing charged items. That requires an entirely separate line of code which does not exist in the demo and didn't exist on OSI servers well past AoS.


Cool - this is how I remember it (well, I don't know about AoS or whatever, but I don't recall any animation or sound when wearing reflect in T2A... but of course, I probably only wore such an item once or twice).

I would suggest NOT upping the number of charges on MR items, since as Matron said, they're arguably more powerful because of their "stealth" nature now... though on the other hand a little powerful too because of the need to arm/disarm them at the appropriate time. But, that disadvantage is easily mitigated by Razor and appropriate hotkeys.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 127: March 19, 2010 - Magic Items, Core Timer, bugs
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:42 am 
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Mikel123 wrote:
Kaivan wrote:
No, none of scripts contain the animation or sound information when wearing charged items. That requires an entirely separate line of code which does not exist in the demo and didn't exist on OSI servers well past AoS.


Cool - this is how I remember it (well, I don't know about AoS or whatever, but I don't recall any animation or sound when wearing reflect in T2A... but of course, I probably only wore such an item once or twice).

I would suggest NOT upping the number of charges on MR items, since as Matron said, they're arguably more powerful because of their "stealth" nature now... though on the other hand a little powerful too because of the need to arm/disarm them at the appropriate time. But, that disadvantage is easily mitigated by Razor and appropriate hotkeys.

This one got by me. they are currently making the animation and sound when the charge fires

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 127: March 19, 2010 - Magic Items, Core Timer, bugs
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:36 pm 
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Mikel123 wrote:
...

I would suggest NOT upping the number of charges on MR items, since as Matron said, they're arguably more powerful because of their "stealth" nature now... though on the other hand a little powerful too because of the need to arm/disarm them at the appropriate time. But, that disadvantage is easily mitigated by Razor and appropriate hotkeys.


I don't know about that request. In the interest of fairness and logic I would suggest that the same logic compensation be applied to all affected items be applied universally.

Otherwise you are entering into a game design policy issue.

What makes a protection item that last 50 seconds less of a problem than a magic reflection item that last only 5 to 9 seconds?

Templates that rely on physical damage are effected by protection items. What makes magic reflection an exception?

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 127: March 19, 2010 - Magic Items, Core Timer, bugs
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:13 pm 
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Kraarug wrote:
What makes magic reflection an exception?


As I understood it, the increase in charges was for items whose duration changed. MR didn't change it's duration. In fact, as I mentioned, I think the functional change to MR was for the positive.

I don't care about what templates rely on. When you start talking about templates, your bias becomes clear. You are like a Washington lobbyist! When you ignore templates and focus on what things DO, I think you end up making more objective decisions. when you argue for things based on how they'll impact certain people (namely, yourself), I think it's clear you're not offering an objective opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 127: March 19, 2010 - Magic Items, Core Timer, bugs
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 8:58 pm 
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Mikel123 wrote:
Kraarug wrote:
What makes magic reflection an exception?


As I understood it, the increase in charges was for items whose duration changed. MR didn't change it's duration. In fact, as I mentioned, I think the functional change to MR was for the positive.

I don't care about what templates rely on. When you start talking about templates, your bias becomes clear. You are like a Washington lobbyist! When you ignore templates and focus on what things DO, I think you end up making more objective decisions. when you argue for things based on how they'll impact certain people (namely, yourself), I think it's clear you're not offering an objective opinion.

Bias?

How is there bias in a request of fairness?

You, my friend are askew. Don't try not to read into the intentions of others, it never is a wise thing to attempt.

Rather than single out one type of magic item, it should be uniform.

Uniform does not equal bias.

I would call in infinite duration of a magic reflection charge to a 5 second duration the most radical modification in this whole change. If you care to put some thought to it, perhaps you would see it too and see that there's no biased in my request.

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Last edited by Kraarug on Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 127: March 19, 2010 - Magic Items, Core Timer, bugs
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:18 pm 
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SirChandestroy wrote:
I do know for sure that there were some that wouldn't work by double-clicking and that the ones that did work with double-click were low-charge rings, however when it comes to how that worked, my memory is a little foggy.

I think that all low-charge (5 or 6 charges or below I'm pretty sure) rings were usable by double-clicking, even if they originally had more charges, but this part I'm not 100% sure about, it may have just been the ones that had the low charges to begin with.

I'm also pretty sure (not quite 100%, but pretty sure) that they both worked by wearing them as well...the ones that worked by double-clicking just had an bonus way to use them.

I tried doing a little searching for some confirmation of this, but didn't find anything. My houses finally fell on Atlantic about 6 months ago or I'd have a bunch of them to test with there, I had huge stock of both types, but the stock was in one of my remaining houses...


This is exactly as I remember it. You have a good memory.


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 127: March 19, 2010 - Magic Items, Core Timer, bugs
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:01 am 
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It's not a tough read, lol.

You are talking about "fairness" to "those who rely on physical damage". I'm talking about applying the logic presented (increase the charges on items whose duration & power was lessened) to the items. Agility, Protection, etc, were nerfed in power. MR was not.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 127: March 19, 2010 - Magic Items, Core Timer, bugs
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:19 am 
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Mikel123 wrote:
It's not a tough read, lol.

You are talking about "fairness" to "those who rely on physical damage". I'm talking about applying the logic presented (increase the charges on items whose duration & power was lessened) to the items. Agility, Protection, etc, were nerfed in power. MR was not.


If you can not see how MR was nerfed (made era accurate) then you are blind. It shouldn't be too hard to understand how your request was baseless.

I'd go into it, mentioning how the 'stealth' action you are fearing applied to protection as well, but I fear it wouldn't make a difference.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 127: March 19, 2010 - Magic Items, Core Timer, bugs
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:47 am 
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I'll go into it for you.

Knowing that someone is wearing a protection item, or just put one on, is pointless. You don't change any aspect of how you fight them. It's not like you use different weapons or tactics knowing that someone's armor might block 2 more damage points per hit. If you are completely ignorant to someone's protected or unprotected status, it changes nothing.

Knowing that someone put on a magic reflect item is a big deal. It's enormous; it's the difference between hitting someone for 24 and hitting yourself for 24. Or even 48. If you are ignorant to someone's reflect or non-reflect status, you die. Very quickly.

So sneakily putting on a protection item is not a bonus at all. Sneakily putting on a reflect item is a massive advantage.

My point is this: protection items (and strength, and agility, etc) have a value that is directly proportional to the amount of time they are active for. Magic Reflect's value is based on how many spells it can reflect, as well as how quickly and noticeably it can be worn. And my contention is that a MR item, because of how quickly it can be put on or off, can still reflect about as many spells as it could before. It just got more powerful from the lack of animation.

If Derrick wants to compensate items that got weaker, so be it. But MR items did not get weaker; they got stronger.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 127: March 19, 2010 - Magic Items, Core Timer, bugs
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:03 am 
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Additions and fixes since patch:
  • Items on boat or in a house that the master has control over can now be guarded by a pet
  • Added (guarded) tags for Tools, Potions, and Recall Rune's
  • Mass Curse can now cause spell interruption
  • You will turn and face your target when casting both Reactive Armor and Protection as you should
  • You must say exactly "i resign from my guild" and nothing more to leave a guild, this should help with accidental removals
  • Magic Reflection charges will consume at one per five seconds (20 ticks) when the item is worn.
  • Taking off an item of Magic Reflection will remove the reflective effect.
  • Fixes issue with pirates, Gypsy's and a few other recently added creatures who began moving at superhuman speeds with last patch.
  • Fixed Magic Wizard's hat; the stat effect was not being applied as of last patch.
  • Fixed issued with named clothing not showing other Attributes when clicked: (blessed), (guarded), etc.

Note on the animation and sound on clothing and jewelry enchantments:
We are still looking into this. From what can be seen there doesn't appear to be any animation or sound effect on any clothing or jewelry; this does not jive with my memory (for what that's worth). We are still looking into this.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 127: March 19, 2010 - Magic Items, Core Timer, bugs
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:31 am 
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Mikel123 wrote:
I'll go into it for you.

Knowing that someone is wearing a protection item, or just put one on, is pointless. You don't change any aspect of how you fight them. It's not like you use different weapons or tactics knowing that someone's armor might block 2 more damage points per hit. If you are completely ignorant to someone's protected or unprotected status, it changes nothing.

Knowing that someone put on a magic reflect item is a big deal. It's enormous; it's the difference between hitting someone for 24 and hitting yourself for 24. Or even 48. If you are ignorant to someone's reflect or non-reflect status, you die. Very quickly.

So sneakily putting on a protection item is not a bonus at all. Sneakily putting on a reflect item is a massive advantage.

My point is this: protection items (and strength, and agility, etc) have a value that is directly proportional to the amount of time they are active for. Magic Reflect's value is based on how many spells it can reflect, as well as how quickly and noticeably it can be worn. And my contention is that a MR item, because of how quickly it can be put on or off, can still reflect about as many spells as it could before. It just got more powerful from the lack of animation.

If Derrick wants to compensate items that got weaker, so be it. But MR items did not get weaker; they got stronger.


And what does that have to do with anything concerning the number of charges?

I sounds like an attempt at game design and "compensation" for mechanics which I think is a poor idea and certainly policy.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 127: March 19, 2010 - Magic Items, Core Timer, bugs
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:46 am 
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Uh, increase the charges to be what they were in era. Why even discuss it?

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 127: March 19, 2010 - Magic Items, Core Timer, bugs
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:32 pm 
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Derrick wrote:
Additions and fixes since patch:
  • Magic Reflection charges will consume at one per five seconds (20 ticks) when the item is worn.
  • Taking off an item of Magic Reflection will remove the reflective effect.


:shock: :shock: :shock:

Can anyone confirm this is era-accurate? This feels more like a balance nerf than an era-accuracy update. I don't remember that at all! I'm passionately against this change, but I'll shut up immediately if I can see some reliable source.


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