Paralyze, Flaging and Murder Counts

[tekai]

After spending about four hours searching Google, I have a new appreciation for the members of the community that research the era.

Currently on UOSecondage all you have to do to receive a murder count is to be in war mode and double click someone blue. That is not era-accurate.

Up until November the 16'th 1999 The flagging system was different then it is on our current shard. During the last month before the Final cut off patch determined by the staff, the system was changed. I propose that since 98% of T2A was like this, that we could add it to uosecondage.

In order to give a player a murder count, you had to do one point of damage. This allowed for the spell paralyze to be used by a blue mage on a innocent and not take a murder count if the blue innocent died. The mage would go grey, and be a criminal, but no murder charge could be posted.

I do not have sources on Mana drain, and Mana Vampire but they were also exempt from this rule.

Here are a few sources I found.

First is the Patch notes from Nov 16, 1999
http://update.uo.com/design_22.html

Second, and not really a good source but hey!
This one talks about a fight between innocents where a female is called a bad word for Paralyzing because she was afraid of counts.
Check the April 16'th news update
http://www.wtfman.com/uoevil/april.htm

There were many reasons that this was an important part of the era. Mug-Thieving was a viable tactic. no one died, but the person couldn't rage and kill himself and count the mage.

Thank you
Tekai
OlmanRiver

[EVeee]

While we're talking about giving counts, the other day I provoked two monsters on each other and then another bard (not guilded) quickly provoked one of them back onto me. He went grey, the monster killed me, and I wasn't given the option to report a murder. Is that the way it should be? Seems to me I should've been able to give a count there.

[MatronDeWinter]

Both of those links are the same. Add the WTFMAN.com article about the actual ingame dated account of this. Mana-drain and Vampire were in fact, listed a little further down in that article, but I do not have the link anymore.

It sounds like you were either, already grey, or you are in the thieves guild. If those are not true, then you or the attacker likely recalled before you died. You simply cant recall and commit suicide to warrant a murder-count.

[EVeee]

Both of those links are the same. Add the WTFMAN.com article about the actual ingame dated account of this. Mana-drain and Vampire were in fact, listed a little further down in that article, but I do not have the link anymore.

It sounds like you were either, already grey, or you are in the thieves guild. If those are not true, then you or the attacker likely recalled before you died. You simply cant recall and commit suicide to warrant a murder-count.

When he provoked the monster onto me, I was blue and he turned grey. I was subsequently poisoned and cast arch cure within range of the monster and turned grey because of that, but shouldn't I still have been able to give him a count?

Also, not in the thieves' guild and no one recalled.

[Silverfoot]

While we're talking about giving counts, the other day I provoked two monsters on each other and then another bard (not guilded) quickly provoked one of them back onto me. He went grey, the monster killed me, and I wasn't given the option to report a murder. Is that the way it should be? Seems to me I should've been able to give a count there.

That's interesting, but given the fact that you cannot gain fame/karma for what your provoked monster kills, I guess it also makes sense that you are not responsible when that monster kills another player.

[Kaivan]

Just to add a small note, the change to paralysis is not from November 16th, but it is from May 25th. Given the date of the patch, it existed for a very significant portion of T2A.

[MatronDeWinter]

While we're talking about giving counts, the other day I provoked two monsters on each other and then another bard (not guilded) quickly provoked one of them back onto me. He went grey, the monster killed me, and I wasn't given the option to report a murder. Is that the way it should be? Seems to me I should've been able to give a count there.

That's interesting, but given the fact that you cannot gain fame/karma for what your provoked monster kills, I guess it also makes sense that you are not responsible when that monster kills another player.

I'm fairly certain that provoking on someone will get you a count. Mabye, just mabye, there is a bug where when he initially provoked the monster onto monster2, he aggrod monster2, thereby removing the ability to make monster2 a criminal. Then the other guy provoked monster2 on him, resulting in no count?

Or mabye, after he provoked, and you initially took damage, you were healed back to full health, resetting the murder-option, and since he did not re-provoke you could not count, and it was treated as if the monster aggrod you by itself.

[Derrick]

Just to add a small note, the change to paralysis is not from November 16th, but it is from May 25th. Given the date of the patch, it existed for a very significant portion of T2A.

Yeah, this patch note got me again, as this page has many times in the past. The Timestamp on the page is "Nov 16 1999 4:49PM CST", but the title of the patch is "May 25th Publish"

The question about provoking is interesting, but way off topic.

[cletus]

After spending about four hours searching Google, I have a new appreciation for the members of the community that research the era.

Currently on UOSecondage all you have to do to receive a murder count is to be in war mode and double click someone blue. That is not era-accurate.

Up until November the 16'th 1999 The flagging system was different then it is on our current shard. During the last month before the Final cut off patch determined by the staff, the system was changed. I propose that since 98% of T2A was like this, that we could add it to uosecondage.

In order to give a player a murder count, you had to do one point of damage. This allowed for the spell paralyze to be used by a blue mage on a innocent and not take a murder count if the blue innocent died. The mage would go grey, and be a criminal, but no murder charge could be posted.

I do not have sources on Mana drain, and Mana Vampire but they were also exempt from this rule.

Here are a few sources I found.

First is the Patch notes from Nov 16, 1999
http://update.uo.com/design_22.html

Second, and not really a good source but hey!
This one talks about a fight between innocents where a female is called a bad word for Paralyzing because she was afraid of counts.
Check the April 16'th news update
http://www.wtfman.com/uoevil/april.htm

There were many reasons that this was an important part of the era. Mug-Thieving was a viable tactic. no one died, but the person couldn't rage and kill himself and count the mage.

Thank you
Tekai
OlmanRiver

I do remember this very clearly on OSI. However, I am not sure this would be a positive change. The way I remember it was there would be blues who would run up and paralyze blues while reds ran up and did the work. That was honestly pretty freaking annoying. It was cheesy and didn't make much sense in the actual gameplay.

We should have this flagging system where attacking doesn't give a count unless you do damage but change paralyze to do 1 damage. To me that would be the best of both worlds, I dunno.

[tekai]

annoying but era accurate

Olmanriver

[Kaivan]

Simply attacking a person should not make you eligible for a count under either system. The reason that paralyze was even allowed to give you a murder count was because of the general definition of what made a person eligible for a murder count. That definition is any action that leaves the victim at less than full life or leaves a detrimental effect on them would make you eligible for a murder count. To give a few examples of how it should work lets work with these hypothetical situations:

A more detailed explanation of why this occurs can be found on the stratics archives for murderers.

[Polgara]

"I propose that since 98% of T2A was like this, that we could add it to uosecondage."


Nothing more to add, just its silly that if u just try to scare someone, for example when u are a miner and someone is stealing ur spot, u just attack him without touch him,he ran and suicide so u get murder....Why u get murder exactly? Cox u tried to scared him? No way

[bumbling newb]

i agree para shouldnt give counts nor should attacking without doing dmg.

[malice-tg]

Simply attacking a person should not make you eligible for a count under either system.

this is how it works on UOSA now though.

I think if the patch is from may we should leave it out.

BUT the current system gives a murder if you double click someone and do not do any damage but they die. it should be 1 damage or more gives count.

[Derrick]

BUT the current system gives a murder if you double click someone and do not do any damage but they die. it should be 1 damage or more gives count.

I plan to fix this soon