Thanks for the warm welcome back!

[Duke Jones]

I dont support any sort of oversight in the world of murdering. I just wonder if, as sooo many years have elapsed since UO has been released, have many lost all sense of 'fun' with the game, and have nothing left to do but run around causing chaos for everyone? Murderers, in my experience, were usually more organized/picky/etc. From what I ran into, it felt like the world was plauged with people with nothing left to do but grief.

Thank you for pointing out the "Big Picture."

[zzyzx]

I dont support any sort of oversight in the world of murdering. I just wonder if, as sooo many years have elapsed since UO has been released, have many lost all sense of 'fun' with the game, and have nothing left to do but run around causing chaos for everyone? Murderers, in my experience, were usually more organized/picky/etc. From what I ran into, it felt like the world was plauged with people with nothing left to do but grief.

Thank you for pointing out the "Big Picture."

The problem with the number of murderers on this shard is caused by the era this shard replicates. Why did a lot of people quit UO when Trammel was introduced? Because pvp/murdering pretty much went away. Where are these people going to play? On a shard that allows pvp/murdering. Where are players who do not pk/pvp going to play? Probably a Trammy shard.

THIS is why we have so many reds here.

[Duke Jones]

The problem with the number of murderers on this shard is caused by the era this shard replicates. Why did a lot of people quit UO when Trammel was introduced? Because pvp/murdering pretty much went away. Where are these people going to play? On a shard that allows pvp/murdering. Where are players who do not pk/pvp going to play? Probably a Trammy shard.

THIS is why we have so many reds here.

Oooooohhhh. Virtual Immigration issues. Interesting view on the subject. This might be another case of "Art imitating Life." Good work thinking outside the server box, zzyzx. That could actually explain alot, I could personally draw a parralel to crime/cultural changes regarding "Katrina Refugees" mass exodus from the gulf coast area and immigrating to other parts of the country. But I'm getting off topic, here.

The introduction of Trammel forced PVPers and griefers to find other UO servers, one of which being UOSA,resulting in a disproportionate ratio of reds to Blues, classy players to elitist, exploiting jerks.

[Layt]

I dont support any sort of oversight in the world of murdering. I just wonder if, as sooo many years have elapsed since UO has been released, have many lost all sense of 'fun' with the game, and have nothing left to do but run around causing chaos for everyone? Murderers, in my experience, were usually more organized/picky/etc. From what I ran into, it felt like the world was plauged with people with nothing left to do but grief.

Thank you for pointing out the "Big Picture."

The problem with the number of murderers on this shard is caused by the era this shard replicates. Why did a lot of people quit UO when Trammel was introduced? Because pvp/murdering pretty much went away. Where are these people going to play? On a shard that allows pvp/murdering. Where are players who do not pk/pvp going to play? Probably a Trammy shard.

THIS is why we have so many reds here.

That does make perfect sense. Half the reason I originally quit was because of trammel's creation. This shard does feel exactly like a 'what if' scenario.

[Zane]

While that train of thought sounds reasonable, I think we should also remember two things.

1. The rationale that led to Trammel was flawed. It led to a decline in the game and essentially explains why we've got such consistent numbers for an era based server.

2. Other elements which influence gameplay have changed, whcih changes the red/blue dynamic a little. Latency was such an issue then that by the time you realised you were under assault it was often too late to do anything. Now, 1v1, you can more often then not escape.


Now, combine these two things and I think you see the reason for the few red packs out there. With the element of surprise no longer being such a deciding factor, syncing with multiple people regains that insurmountable advantage. Thankfully, there's not a ton of that going on, but I think those are the ones that really fit the mold of the reds during that time.

[Caswallon]

Thats such a complete misconception , trammel did not lead to a decline, far from it, in terms off user numbers UO went from 120,000 at the start of Ren to 240,00 when AoS was released, its most succesfull period by far. Trammel saved UO, it did not "kill" it, people were leaving for EQ for various reasons, some of which were to escape the rampant pking and griefing and general ass clownery.

Like it or not that is a fact and cannot be dissputed, other than by people who refuse to accept that their ignorant, childish behaviour was the reason for trammel's creation. The people who loved to **** with people so much killed their own game, by never letting up, even for a second, clever move.

Yes it did change the game we loved, but it did not "kill" UO.

[Zane]

Who said anything about killing the game.

I said it led to the game's decline.


Truthfully, the uniqueness of UO is what the game thrived on even as new games came out. While some players were leaving for EQ, much of Trammel, IMO, was to try to attract the new players that were drawn to the genre by the success of EQ. UO was groundbreaking, but EQ was market breaking. It gave a commercial value to the genre that hadn't existed, and much of UO's success during Trammel is owed to EQ.


Every game has a group of players who find a way to screw with others withing the system put forth. Personally, I think they should have kept the old reputation system which put less emphasis on murder. The second they put the murder system in they attracted a certain sort of player, although that was not the only type of player who was a murderer. Yes, I'm saying just because someone is a red does not mean they are bad, just like because someone is blue does not make them good. If it wasn't this system, they would have used the other ways in game to svrew with people.


If UO had kept the freedom it had at inception, updating only mechanics, graphics, and content along the way, I suspect it would still be a leader in the industry instead of a what once was.

[Caswallon]

Oh I agree, it just annoys me when people blame UO, as we knew and loved it, changing on trammel, when often they should be taking a look at their own actions in game.

[Zane]

We just look at it differently.

To me, it's trying to appeal to a certain demographic, mainly the player that wants an easy content/end game. They want access to everything whenever they want. They want to be the best they can with little input. To be honest, that's not the sort of player who belongs in a MMO, and most MMOs have failed at the balance. WoW (which I'm not a fan of) is the only one who has managed this, but they too fail in many aspects.


Another example of Trammel is what happened to SWG (not exactly, but end result). As a sandbox (or close to it), they were successful. They missed the point of where they failed, and that was in working mechanics and balance. As a result they kept shifting things this way and that, never truly focusing on the functioning of the game. It was just misguided every step of the way, most of the time under the direction of LucasArts who thought they knew what people wanted. In the end, the turned the game into an abortion which drove the loyal player base away.

UO's changes were made because they thought they knew what people wanted, but if it had not been such a new/budding genre of games with so few choices at the time, Trammel would possibly have led to the end of the game.


Someday the people focused on the money side will realise that video games are a niche business that can enjoy crossover/widespread appeal, much like music... which means you need to first play to the niche, and second play to the mass appeal.