Second Age & Simultaneous Account Login

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archaicsubrosa77
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Re: Second Age & Simultaneous Account Login

Post by archaicsubrosa77 »

One group of people who it would definately hurt would be PKs.
Macroing off kills would be that much harder then.

How else would this affect gameplay besides eliminating ghosting and archer bots?
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Re: Second Age & Simultaneous Account Login

Post by exince »

archaicsubrosa77 wrote:One group of people who it would definately hurt would be PKs.
Macroing off kills would be that much harder then.
maybe that would bring "the good guys" back. As someone starting here from the beginning, let me tell you, that as soon as you see anyone in a dungeon, you better recall because in a few seconds his pk will come around the corner.

in original t2a pking was a choice - a rewarding one of course, but also a dangerous one. you didn't have 4 other chars around, waiting in queue to pk if your main pk died. if you died, you where "out for a week or longer" of macroing. here you just login with your other account.

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Smelly Ira
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Re: Second Age & Simultaneous Account Login

Post by Smelly Ira »

archaicsubrosa77 wrote:One group of people who it would definately hurt would be PKs.
Macroing off kills would be that much harder then.

How else would this affect gameplay besides eliminating ghosting and archer bots?
Heh, this sort of proves the point of the people on the opposing side of your argument.

AS the poster above says, isn't pking supposed to be risky? As it stands now multiclienting seems to have made it not only profitable, but comparatively quite a bit less risky. Seems like the ability to have simultaneous clients creates a lot less in general risk than what everyone talks about from back in the day.

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Re: Second Age & Simultaneous Account Login

Post by Biohazard »

Arcott Ramathorn wrote:I only quoted you for "truth"...thats what QFT means right? Oh, didnt add that, but thats why i quoted you specifically. I wasnt calling you out for anything, I personally believe that this thread hit on something that people could rally behind, specifically One account logged in at a time. Conversations about shard wipes will divide consensus, divert attention, and close open minds.
Apologies, sir.

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Re: Second Age & Simultaneous Account Login

Post by DrFaustus »

Change it to 1 account and the shard dies.

I speak truth.
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Re: Second Age & Simultaneous Account Login

Post by Lazarus »

Rant on.

I look at this forum and I really can't help but to shake my head. I started playing OSI UO back in 98. No UOAssist, no macroing, just hard work. It took me years to be 7x GM and have a GM smith. No I come on this board for advice about how to gain skills and all I see is macro this, Razor that, and I'm just in awe. I mean do anyone just play the game anymore? I was really shocked to see that you can have Razor restock regs and stuff for you, pick up your arrows that fall on the ground, I'm mean wtf why bother playing the game? Now I learn you can run up to 3 accounts at one time? Thats crazy bananas. Seriously. Limit it to 2 max. I say this because my son wants to play although I'm not sure if he will or not but I can't imagine theres 3 people in a household with 3 separate computers that want to play at the same thing and you know what? If there is then tough. Its a freeshard, its not like they are paying but can't play when they want to.

Rant off.

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Re: Second Age & Simultaneous Account Login

Post by Faust »

People really need to get themselves up to date on this topic before rushing to any judgement... :?

There has been a countless number of topics about it and it's not that hard to search and find it.

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Re: Second Age & Simultaneous Account Login

Post by benny- »

DrFaustus wrote:Change it to 1 account and the shard dies.

I speak truth.

If you're referring to the shard dieing from people losing their established accounts with a one account per ip rule, then yes I would agree. However, we're not talking about limiting accounts per ip, but connections per ip. But if you're trying to say that the majority of this shard's playerbase would up and leave if multiclienting was removed I think that is nothing more than some exaggerated hysteria.

Every time any change is suggested everyone screams it will kill the shard. So far, nearly every change put through on this server has made the game more difficult, removing conveniences for the sake of accuracy. The shard's counts have been doing nothing but going up and up.

The number of people here who really rely so much on multiclienting that they could not consider playing here without it are most likely a very small minority. To be honest, those that so heavily exploit multiclienting that they would not play a server without it are probably not going to be missed regardless. If you cannot play a pk without having 2-3 ghosts camping various hotspots, if you can't fathom the idea of fielding without a gate bot to take you to and fro, or an alt to come quickly should you die, then I don't understand why you'd want to be on a shard that replicates the era in the first place.

What I've found here is that there is a large majority of the playerbase here that does not want multiclienting, which can be seen in the overwhelming support this thread has received so far. While many of us do use it from time to time, it is more of a necessary evil to keep up on a server that has allowed multiclienting to go unchecked for so long....in such a competitive environment as UO, you have to be able to keep up. But in reality, I think the majority would be glad to see it gone and only a small handful are so dependent upon it as to outcry at the idea of it being removed.


To reiterate the general consensus here...



Reduce the number of connections to one per ip.

Should a household genuinely have more than one user playing at a time, they can request to be granted more than one connection (which could be checked to prevent abuse.)

Allow everyone to keep all of their accounts, simply require them to log in on one at a time.
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Re: Second Age & Simultaneous Account Login

Post by Lazarus »

Sounds good to me benny.

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Re: Second Age & Simultaneous Account Login

Post by hjparcins »

Hear, hear!

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Re: Second Age & Simultaneous Account Login

Post by tekai »

You know i'm up to 4 Eve accounts now.

People will not play a game with 1 charecter at a time now, People will simply go to another server or another game where they can play to their full potential.

Your "General consensus" consists of about 5 people posting 20 times in this thread. Most people do not read the forums, and most people like to multiclient, you can tell this by the ip / charecters loged in.

Get with the times.
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Re: Second Age & Simultaneous Account Login

Post by Rhaps »

This is what Derrick has already said about the issues of ghosting and multiple accounts being logged from one ip. It's probably a good idea for those of us who haven't seen a bunch of these threads before to get an idea of what the man in charge has already said.

Derrick on Housing & Multiple Accounts:
Derrick wrote: There's about three or four topics that have been about hashed to death without any real implementable outcome, this one and number of houses owned are big and both related to the three account limit and the subject of free accounts in general.

This is something that I don't know if we can ever solve to the satisfaction of those concerned with it as it's the nature of the Internet that it's very hard to even identify a particular person. We don't take peoples credit card numbers or ever intend to for account creation, so there's always someone that can with reasonable effort cheat the system, it's not that hard even with a router reset, or wireless connection commonly borrowable from a neighbor to come up with another IP address pretty handily. Easy rules to follow and ones that require the least subjective decision from UOSA staff I belive are the best ways to keep things fair.
Derrick recounting how he himself used to play with multiple accounts from one one ip in era:
Derrick wrote:We had 2-3 people (one quit), 4 pc's, and 4 accounts on the same phone line in 1999. Yes the others did have to log off for one of us to move very fast though. "crap red! log out guys!"

The inactivity disconnect is accurate, but so easy to get around that i don't know if it's worth implementing. You didn't actually have to move or speak, only send a packet. Opening a backpack in a razor macro ever 60 seconds would defeat this.

The real root of this and other issues that have been raised is that of the number of accounts, and the free nature of them; on this subject there are many threads.
Again on Ghosting:
Derrick wrote:I don't see any way to do anything about this that does not alter other aspects of era game-play. Running around as a ghost watching people was part of era, and really UO as a whole. Taking that away because less than a handful of players are camping spots I don't think is reasonable. Moving ghosts out of dungeons is a free ride out of dungeons for 95% of the players that would be effected by it.

I don't want to get into point by point on this, but nothing is really leaping out at me as a good and mechanically consistent solution.
Note the last sentence there, and one account per ip was suggested in may threads before.

On 1 client per computer:
Derrick wrote:While I agree with the general premise of the post (excluding the accuracy part), there is no way at all to tell beyond a doubt whether a person is running on the same PC or multiple PC's. We do have access to client hardware specs, but not MAC addresses. I busted a pair of players once for multi clienting an event once based on their identical hardware specs, only to find out that it was two family members who had identical PC's, which (initially surprisingly to me) isn't all that unusual.

The only way to implement something like this is to set one connection per IP address, and then assign additional connections if we can demonstrate there are more than one real person playing at that address, but even then you get into the situation where those people can multi client if their roomie isn't on.

As far as UO2 being not commonly used, I disagree with that from personal experience, as everyone in my guild used it, and we were far from hardcore. Additionally, I don't ever remember seeing anything in the TOS that forbid running more than one client at a time. I'm not even sure that UO2 wasn't "UO-Pro" approved.

The reason you couldn't run more than one client at once is because it was software enforced because it was simply unstable. We've all had the experience of having the client mash our config files.

There was no per IP connection limit on OSI, however we will continue to have one here even though it is "inaccurate", just for the nature of freeshards, and the ability to have accounts at no cost, i.e., without a throttle.

OSI would happily sell any single person as many accounts as they were willing to buy. I do belive the inaccuracy argument in this case is myth.
On tracking number of accounts connected:
Derrick wrote:The way off topic posts have been removed
virtue wrote:I noticed that if I get all 3 of my accounts ready to log in fast, the shard "online amount" increases by one as soon as I log more of my accounts in.

Is this intended?
Online counts the connected clients online, there is no way from this end to tell how many real people are sitting behind an IP address.

In IRC, you can see the unique connected IP's by typing !status.
The actual number of real individual people playing at any giving time is somewhere between those two numbers.
IRC wrote: [13:38] <@Derrick> !status
[13:38] <@SecondAge> Server: RunUO 2.0 Creatures: 79954 Items: 3057174 Guilds: 625 Clients Online: 385 IP's: 229
On number of accounts per ip:
Derrick wrote:
Blind wrote:
benny- wrote:I mentioned this briefly in my last reply, but what about a compromise here....allow multiple accounts so that players can keep their existing characters, additional housing, etc., but eliminate multiclienting by only allowing one connection per IP?
That is pretty much what it would have to be. I don't see why people should be building 3 characters at once. It really does ruin the fun.

If they can't enjoy UO without 3 clients on, I guess they just don't remember the way it was.

And you can make the arguement that SOME people were able to do this back then, I'm sure it was a 1 in 1000 ratio and I highly doubt most of you did it. It wasn't like on here where every single person is.
There is currently a client per IP restriction, but this cannot be set to one. Multiple clients from a single IP doesn't mean that there is only one real person behind that IP.
Again on the problem enforcing 1 client per computer:
Derrick wrote:
Thor wrote:As far as the tech side (and Derrick, correct me where I'm wrong)

It's razor which allows multi-clients. There are other programs that would do the same thing, including back in T2A.

The only read IP address would be the external IP, and although each computer has a different internal IP, those wouldn't be readable.
This is entirely correct. We have know way to tell how many "real" pc's lie behind a router.
And finally another comment on his own view of multiclienting:
Derrick wrote:This is very interesting. We have a 3 account per person rule which is strictly enforced. There are many reasons why it's not a good idea to allow players to have an unlimited number of accounts but I feel it's reasonable to allow players do have multiple accounts and multiple clients. I multicliented myself even back in OSI in the T2A era so that I could run my crafters/fisher, while playing on my primary character. Back then the people that could do that were limited to who wanted to dish out the extra money for the account.

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Re: Second Age & Simultaneous Account Login

Post by Mikel123 »

tekai wrote:You know i'm up to 4 Eve accounts now.

People will not play a game with 1 charecter at a time now, People will simply go to another server or another game where they can play to their full potential.

Your "General consensus" consists of about 5 people posting 20 times in this thread. Most people do not read the forums, and most people like to multiclient, you can tell this by the ip / charecters loged in.

Get with the times.
Spot-on. I would have probably left if I came here and it was a one-client max. And I agree on his assessment of the "general consensus". If most people felt like you guys did, we'd have 300 uniques on, with 320 total clients or something.

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Re: Second Age & Simultaneous Account Login

Post by Biohazard »

tekai wrote:Your "General consensus" consists of about 5 people posting 20 times in this thread. Most people do not read the forums, and most people like to multiclient, you can tell this by the ip / charecters loged in.
people multi-client because its necessary to become something on the shard since every other person is using it as well. its a major assumption to say that they like it.

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Re: Second Age & Simultaneous Account Login

Post by tekai »

And its a major assumption to say that they don't!

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