Second Age & Simultaneous Account Login

[Creager]

Everything Blasphemous said is pretty truthful.

There has always been ways to multi-client. Furthermore, allowing a single IP won’t completely deter multi-clienting.

Either way, to me the majority of arguments against multi-clienting are puffery. I don’t see anything about mutli-clienting that negatively affects game-play. What most experience as a byproduct of mutli-clienting, has actually been apart of this game for a long time. Even EasyUO has been around since sometime in 2000.

[nightshark]

Everything Blasphemous said is pretty truthful.

There has always been ways to multi-client. Furthermore, allowing a single IP won’t completely deter multi-clienting.

Either way, to me the majority of arguments against multi-clienting are puffery. I don’t see anything about mutli-clienting that negatively affects game-play. What most experience as a byproduct of mutli-clienting, has actually been apart of this game for a long time. Even EasyUO has been around since sometime in 2000.

Very, very few people on OSI had more than 1 account. Even less during the '99 era (PCs were generally too crap to multi-client effectively, nevermind 56k). 1% of people multi clienting on OSI really draws no similarity to 90% of players multi clienting on free servers. Both multi-clienting and insta-7x-macroing are detrimental to the UO experience for those of us who play UO in the hope it'll be "the way it was". The market for UO is unfortunately gone and has been replaced by people who just want their instant gratification 7xGM tank mage.

I think the main difference in arguments here is simply paradigms of what UO should be.

[Blasphemous]

And your assessment is more than fair. But, please, allow me to tell it to you from the other side. I started UO during the T2A days and played until awhile after Trammel (I actually stopped when Trammel came out, but kept "playing" because I was still actively eBaying. I dropped a trapped box in Tram, killed someone, laughed, and then lost all enjoyment from the game because the spirit was dead). Anyway, I played for the PvP and the PKing.

Now granted, some of you might not appreciate that and that's ok. However, from the PVP/PK aspect, I have been looking for a game that's as open as UO ever since then. I played Shadowbane from release (2003) to 2007. That was supposed to be the "1337" pvp game. However, they cry just like everyone else does. In fact, since SB has died, an emulator which consists of the "1337" of the "1337" has come up. In the brainstorming section I say "let's make safeholds like they are in UO so thieves can actually be thieves". They proceed to cry and whine like carebear bitches.

In the end, my point is that just because some people enjoy PvPing and PKing doesn't mean that we are assholes and DOES NOT mean you can't play the game the way YOU like it. It means we like a different form of play. It means we like to be on the edge of our seat while we play. I can pretty safely say that all of us have done what you all have done; building characters slowly, and really found our playstyle to be more player oriented. It doesn't mean we're "1337 d00dz" who just like to "fUxXx0rz your g4m3z!". It just means we like to play a no holds barred game.

As someone who has tried to recapture that aspect of UO in other games, there just aren't many that can grab us like UO can. The thing that made UO so great was player accountability. No game has achieved the level of player accountability as UO has. I can only speak for myself here, but in the PvP/PK world, there are very few "friends". Those reds that hunt you down and kill you, my red will be hunting as well. My goal: Kill their ass and have them sit in stat loss for however long while I laugh at them. Am I a dick? Maybe. But that's the game that WE play. Killing blues is ... whatever. A pastime. Killing the other reds, that's what it's all about.

So that dude that is "ghost camping" your spot, it's not permanent. If this shard is like other shards, the reds are looking for the other reds and soon his ghost that is camping that spot will be joined by his other toon. I'm making some pretty big assumptions here, but if it's like it used to be, being red isn't a club that you join. It's a struggle to stay alive.

My rambling boils down to this. LET THE PLAYERS POLICE THE SERVER.

Believe me, I'd be just as pissed as you if I saw some lame ass with his ghost there after killing me. BUT THAT'S PART OF THE GAME! Personally, my response would be to grief him into oblivion. Not your style? Ok fine. Maybe join an anti-PK guild. If you're opposed to that, really, you are making my point. The beauty of UO is how multi-faceted it is. You CAN do something about it, which you can't do in other games. Experience UO for EVERYTHING it has to offer. I'll tell you what, killing that PK that harasses you every day is an amazing feeling! Send his ass into stat loss! Regardless of how much money he has, he is going to be pissed off beyond belief because that character is out of commission. It doesn't matter if he has other characters.

So yeah, sorry about my rambling. I'm just incredibly excited. No game. NO GAME offers what UO does. You have choices and there are consequences for your actions. Him boxing multiple toons is irrelevant. So he knows when you're there. So what? Form a strategy to take him out and you'll be proud when you do.

My point is that while you want to experience the game that you remember, WE DO TOO! There's more out there for you, but for us, it's INCREDIBLY limited. But there's no reason that we can't all have what we want. The truth is, having a ghost there tips the scales in the PKs advantage a little bit. But seriously, not THAT much. You still have the EXACT same amount of time to either (a) recall or (b) fight, because in the end, you really have no idea how they got there and it doesn't affect your reaction one bit if they had a bot there.

[Blasphemous]

And for those of you that played during T2A, I think it's pretty safe to say this server seems pretty tame. I couldn't take A STEP out of Britain or Trinsic without being absolutely raped. Brit GY... forget it. Never. Hell, we'd be at the bone wall in Deceit and if we got to stay there for 15 mins before a PK crew came in and wrecked all 324782384 of us, we were lucky.

Personally, from the limited time I have been on this server, I'd say we're missing a big part of the game because I can stay alive on my newb for an hour LJing or whatever, without having to haul ass to city limits!

Maybe I'm wrong. I'm just talking about my limited experience here.

[Alex21]

I would macro mining well watching a tv show or something? Just check my client every while and then or have it up on my second monitor.

[Lazarus]

People say that OSI allowed multiclienting but remember it was because you were playing for each account, $10 a month. Heck they would let you have 100 if you're gonna pay the $1000 to own them.

[LifeForce]

...

I think the main difference in arguments here is simply paradigms of what UO should be.

i agree.

...
Regardless of how much money he has, he is going to be pissed off beyond belief because that character is out of commission. It doesn't matter if he has other characters.
...

i disagree here. with three accounts it is no that much of a biggie to macro back-up from statloss on acc 1 & 2, because the player is still instantly in commission with their PK-alt on acc 3...

the ability to use multiple clients takes a lot of pressure from reds and shifts the risk/reward-ratio quite a bit in their favor, imo.

[Rhaps]

Blasphemous I'm assuming that your post was in a reply to my earlier one about how I experienced t2a. Your reply has really confused me. I have absolutely no problem with Reds, Pks, being PKed and letting the players police the server. I don't really care about ghosting, and I don't hate griefers. I only dislike powergaming in the sense that you can quickly macro/multiclient your way to rapid wealth and total independance from the communinty. Thats what I have done and that totally spoilt the game for me. When I played it properly the first time around I had a lot more fun. The only part of your post that was really relevent to what I was talking about is this:

...and if we got to stay there for 15 mins before a PK crew came in and wrecked all 324782384 of us, we were lucky...

Now you see that made me smile. I remember groups of my friends getting slaughtered by one or two reds and the panic and chaos. That's fine, thats great in fact! Would that happen here? Nah.. the PKs instead have to roll in packs just to down one or two farmers as they are all 7xGM too and if they don't synch them down fast their prey will just recall out of there in a second. It's not just my game that suffers, I imagine the same reds that used to happily slaughter crowds of noobs in era aren't getting that same satisfaction here.

My point is that while you want to experience the game that you remember, WE DO TOO! There's more out there for you, but for us, it's INCREDIBLY limited.

I refute that point. I think here more than anywhere you have just as much freedoms as the rest of us. I certainly haven't seen any Reds that didnt have crafters, houses, and loot like me and becuase of the multiple accounts they have their own sets of blues too. Limited? I think not.

As for all the rest of the stuff about ghosting, OMGLEETPVP, the hardships of being red etc etc etc I'll just say this again for emphasis. I have no problem with any of it! It's just the powergaming, that's it, full stop. PK everyone in sight, dry loot them, ghost every dungeon in the game, that is all a-ok with me. Just do it without multiclienting and macroing.

ps. But don't worry, you won't ever have to

[exince]

i used to pk a lot back in old OSI times. It was the thrill, the danger. Even if you were running around in packs of 3-4 PKs, the dungeons were crowded, there was the danger of a big guild gating in and still gank you. Losing your beloved PK sent you back to macro for 1-1.5 weeks, where you couldn't pk at all. Longer if you actually would like to play - as back in the time, multiple accounts were quite uncommon. So if you were macroing your pk off, no play...

On UOSA it doesn't matter at all. I've been playing for 3 weeks, I have at least 6 chars that - not being finished - would be good enough to pk around, steamrolling the few people out in the dungeons. Thrill? Danger? almost none. Knowing that i'd have alternatives to play around while macroing makes it even less dangerous. Even more if i make one char on each account red, by the time the 3rd char dies, i'm pretty sure, that char 1 and/or char 2 would be back up. I could possibly pk non-stop if i wished to and that's something that was out of reach for 99% of the people back in t2a. that's the reason while you see more reds out in the dungeons than blue.

And ghosting is the same problem. Yeah, you can scout with your blue char, recall home, log out, login your red and come at me. But.. you've seen me AND i've seen you. I'm aware of it, i can prepare myself (even more: if you only have one account, it's quite easy to remember the names of the blues scouting. With so many accounts/chars that grows more difficult). Sure, with one account you could also scout as a ghost, but you surely wouldn't attack me with your red in a matter of seconds (as a ghost has no way to instant logout in a dungeon).

I'm not whining.. Call me a crybaby if you want to. But i'm a veteran, i know that dieing belongs to uo. I mean, how much does dieing really cost you? a few reags, a weap? and an armor if you're a dexer? well. money's quite easy to come by on this server anyway.

But, the fear, the danger of dieing with your statsloss red also belongs to it. That's what made it so special to pk in t2a - the statsloss. It was a risk vs. reward. Macroing was expensive - in terms of money and much more in terms of time. And i guess, that's a feeling i will surely miss on UOSA. Time on UOSA is worthless, that's why the "risk vs. reward" doesn't work on UOSA.

Sure, i'm also using my 3 accounts. Would I be able to live with only one? sure! I even think that it would be more fun and more challenging - I could chose to do so by myself - while hurting myself and giving up the "even field for everybody".

[Lazarus]

Good post exince

[Kraarug]

@Smelly Ira:

Trust me, the real oldschool UO is 10x better than this.

I'd wager 90% of the people that run multiple accounts are people like you - those that do it just because to NOT do it is to play at a huge, crippling disadvantage.

Take away that requirement and everyone can be on an even playing field. I love UO, but I don't want to have to alt-tab and play excel spreadsheet macro-script game just to get 10% of the experience I had when the game was in it's heyday.

Yeah, there are the leet doods who love to do this kind of thing - but honestly, they play Hybrid and countless "log in with 125 in every stat and 10x GM" shards. The only ones that would play on a genuine Second Age throwback like this are the handful who want to have an advantage on those looking for an authentic experience, because they can't compete on crap shards like Hybrid where everyone is in neon green/pink riding t-rexes and shit while shooting true black lasers out of their eyes.

I say screw these scumbags, let them go to a crap server. Embrace authenticity and community.

In 1999, I had 2 clients running. I find 3 is a little too much, 1 is a little too noob. 2 is just right and era accurate.

[Blasphemous]

Haha! Just ignore my last 2 posts. I was drunk. I read them and felt like a douche.

[Duke Jones]

Once again I feel Like I should post this whenever people start to say what was and was not legal back then.

NOTE: This isn't a plea to Derrick, this is just verification and documentation of the era policy.

http://web.archive.org/web/199911290210 ... ploit.html

Timestamp: "19991129021021"

Thanks to: Akanigit for finding this.

"Is it legal to use a program to help me macro out repetitive tasks while I am away from the game?

Although we realize that many players use 3rd party programs, such as macro programs, to aid in the growth of their characters, we want to point out that unattended macroing runs contrary to the gaming experience of Ultima Online and that the use of unauthorized 3rd party programs is a violation of the terms of service. Macroing can mean a number of different things, but it is the unattended macroing that we are most concerned with, not usage of the in-game macros. Unattended macroing means being away from your UO session while your character repeats a series of actions for any length of time. Any macro that repeats is potentially unattended. Some players use macroing programs to aid them in repetitive tasks within the game, and, although it may seem as if these programs are benevolent time savers, when used in an unattended or repeating manner, ***these programs actually create problems within the game.*** Many people who play UO are not willing to pay for these programs to assist in character development, nor do they feel comfortable playing in a world where such tools are available to others. They simply wish to play in the environment they feel Ultima Online should be. We tend to agree with those players.
Players found to be engaged in unattended macroing will be kicked from the game and a note will be placed on their account. Being kicked means that your connection to UO will be terminated. This is not a banning; it is simply that we are dropping your connection while you are not present in the game. Players who consistently violate the terms of service by using 3rd party programs to perform unattended macroing may have their account banned on a temporary or permanent basis. Players should only call a GM to report others performing unattended macroing when it is interfering with their gaming experience."

[Your_Ugly_Mom]

Just my 2 cents...
(wall of text)

I started UO on Atlantic February 1998. Changed end of 1999 to Europa and played till 2004 somewhere.

At the beginning on Atlantic i played UO with the intention to see the world and see the danger and thrill inside it. As i "saw all places" in the world the pvp starts to caught my interests more and more. With a ping of 130ms i decided to switch To Europa Server 1999 and left my guildmates back on Atlantic. Now i had a ping of around 50ms. That was, for pvp things, much better. I had to start all characters from the scratch and hence what, it didnt took that long to get back to a state i could pvp on this shard.
I never were interested in being a merchant nor im a rare finder/seller nor standing at WBB and talking all day long These game gives so much opportunities what you can do, it fits so many playstyles like no other game, and i tried a lot of games. I like to be able to be self sufficent, this was always my first goal (Potions, smithy, tmaps).
To start a new character and build its skills isnt the way anymore, it is mandatory to try out if the thoughts of a template will work in practice. That is the main reason for me, why i prefer multi clienting, i dont want "waste" too much time training the skills of this char, i want to "waste" time playing it and trying it out on the fields.

And still, after murdering over 5000 Characters in Ultima Online my heart still bumps when a pk comes on screen it is unbelievable what this game still is able to do with me. I played Word of Warcraft too, i cant remember one happening in WoW that gives any of this thrill....


Ok, thats it .)

YUM

P.S. Ghost-Monitoring is shit. I would prefer a solution, where all ghost would transported out of dungeon after a specific time. On the other hand, for people with a good organisation it should be a great opportunity to set up a trap for this pk. You know exactly where a pk will come to, that is a great possibility

[Lazarus]

I didn't know you couldnt run a macro while you were afk.