This whole Era Accurate Argument

[Manfromx]

Like I said earlier Donk I'm cool with the shard and I'm here and I love it.

I just thought some rules could be bent and not many would mind.

Turns out a whole bunch mind lol. I had no idea people were so enamored with T2A as to pretty much call blasphemy on anyone suggesting improvements .

This is our cultures holy book I guess

Thanks for pulling that off the main site. I missed the part about "we will not pull things from other era's". Though the devs could make unique ones.... (I know I know)


Don't try to chase me away here guys. I'm just in a different mindset than you men of the cloth .

*again, sorry I missed that statement*

[Donk]

I wholeheartedly welcome you to the shard, and I hope you have a great time here. The shard is excellent, I've played many free shards and I wouldn't hesistate to say that this is the best one there has ever been.

I'm not trying to insult you personally or chase you away with my posts, and I'm sorry if I came off as aggressive. I'm just trying to explain why your ideas, while all perfectly valid suggestions, will never be implemented here because they directly conflict with the core reason that this shard exists in the first place.

[BlackFoot]

blasphemer!!

[nightshark]

Does neon hued cloth REALLY make a difference to gameplay?

Let us ride teh beetles IMO, they make no difference to gameplay, it's just extra content.

Again a weak argument. Have I advocated Rideable Beetles and neon colours? Is anyone in this community clamoring for it? Why when I say "New House Types" does everyone hear something entirely ridiculous that OSI dreamed up. That path happened once you guys. It's not like it's destiny that it happens anytime you change the code. Yes new housing would make things look nicer and be something new to work towards. Yes little things like that impact gameplay for certain types of players. Unless you're honestly saying to add anything because it's all choice. Somehow I think it's sarcastic though.

Beetles and neon items have strong opposition. New housing does not. New PvP changes may not, either. Cutting bandages 1 at a time probably doesn't either.

People play this shard BECAUSE it's T2A - changing small things that have little opposition, one at a time, will lead to UOSA being a custom shard, not T2A. There are plenty of those shards already out there.

Changing 100 little things is worse than adding JUST neon cloth, or JUST beetles, imo. 100 small oppositions create 1 big opposition. The same as 100 small changes add up.

[Manfromx]

Having said that though nightshark I am curious about one other thing.

Where is the money sink in this game? Won't inflation just go insane once most the housing spots are taken? That'll make it hard on new comers.

We have near infinite wealth being generated out there and it seems a very finite amount of things to spend it on. New things don't cure this completely but it can slow it down.

[Van Raily]

Housing isn't as big a deal as you might think. Nostalgia wears off, people quit or lose interest in playing often and thus maintaining their 15 houses. It's just ugly seeing all the little huts everywhere, but there are spots for bigger houses (and plenty smaller ones), even if it doesn't look like that at first.

As for a money sink, I really think that's the least of the shard's concerns.

[Braden]

Having said that though nightshark I am curious about one other thing.

Where is the money sink in this game? Won't inflation just go insane once most the housing spots are taken? That'll make it hard on new comers.

We have near infinite wealth being generated out there and it seems a very finite amount of things to spend it on. New things don't cure this completely but it can slow it down.

Economic theory and principles are used to keep inflation tightly in check in this world. Housing is not a problem as of right now.

[Wise]

Having said that though nightshark I am curious about one other thing.

Where is the money sink in this game? Won't inflation just go insane once most the housing spots are taken? That'll make it hard on new comers.

We have near infinite wealth being generated out there and it seems a very finite amount of things to spend it on. New things don't cure this completely but it can slow it down.

Economic theory and principles are used to keep inflation tightly in check in this world. Housing is not a problem as of right now.

Unfortunately Braden this is a flawed statement, I have done quite a bit of research into MMORPG economies, and UO has one of the worst systems for keeping gold inflation in check... unfortunately this is/will be always a issue, in time inflation on UOSA will rise, its inevitable, unless a major gold sink is put into place (which is not era) but this wont happen as fast as OSI for 2 reasons,

1. our population is smaller
2. we wont have the gold duping issue OSI had


Finally IF you we have some economic model that UOSA follows I would be VERY interested in seeing it as well... it would not be era-accurate in its-self.


for those who dont quite understand UO economy does not work because the Gold entering the world (via npc's, monster spawn & resource spawns) is more then the gold being sunk back into the world (via NPC vendor shops) while the rest of the gold circles sosoria between players or is horded in ones house. this was a constant problem in the early days of the game (0I think they fixed it now but I didn't player after 2001 on OSI) You cant be putting more wealth into the world then you are taking out else there will be a natural inflation that can not be stopped.






(If you are pouring more water into the tub then it can drain, it will overflow).


EDIT: for those who wish to know more, I have attached a VERY good article attached the graphs here to explain better


http://www.mine-control.com/zack/uoecon/uoecon.html

[TheEttinKing]

Yeah that's my main thing now is there is nothing awesome i want in game cause everything that's pretty is from a different age.
I never liked to pvp a lot i did for about 1 month in the 6 months Ive been back.
I'm a FARMER that's what i do and Ive been doing it for about 5 months of play time plus i camped a ton of idocs i was not working at the time so it was 18 hour days farming and i dont know about you but i make 80-100k a hour plus magic weps and tmaps .
Plus when i had quit playing for a few months before i came back i already had a few million.
So im left with millions of gold and nothing i want to buy and it sucks ive just been giving it away, ive given away tons of gold to new players.
Ive got stockpiles of Vanqs in my small houses if i turned them lose on the market the price of a perfect vanq weapon would drop to nothing.

Ive even went as far as to hide my castle deeds on a char that is not one of my main accounts cause if a gm saw how much i got you would accuse me of something i hadn't done And im only half as rich as Stranger is, me and him live in the same castle and we have developed a little bit of a paranoia that the admins might be watching us.

[nightshark]

The UO economy never inflates that much anyway. It was never that bad in '99 or even UO:R. Prices were cheaper or very similar than they are here. Pretty much everything I used to buy in '99 is roughly the same price I pay for it here.

The difference in the UO and RL economy is that there is a very real cap on what people need and want. There is also a turnover of players getting bored, and new players coming in.

Things like supreme acc vanq hallys are always going to sell to the rich who can really afford it, but noone in this game needs 12 castles. Noone is going to outbid joe newbie for 1,000 ingots when they already have 100,000 stockpiled for their halberds. The majority of trade is done between those who actually need to trade - not the people who have stockpiled massive amounts of gold and resources.

Also, if we only have 1,000 regular players, houses are never going to be that expensive - the people who buy more houses than they need just for merchanting generally want to get rid of them before the "upkeep" becomes more than the house is worth. Look in the houses section of the trading post - even a tower only goes for ~50k more than deed price. Keep goes for ~castle deed. Even for that price, some people can't sell. It's really not that much, after 2 years of the shard existing.

As for gold sinks, PKs are the closest thing we have to a gold sink in this game. We lose money to the PKs, and are forced to go back out and buy the same goods time and time again. So there will always be demand for these low level goods, and there are pretty much always those willing to supply (often the very people that took our items in the first place). Those people then use that money to buy the aforementioned supreme acc vanq hallys we farmed, for the inflated price, while the majority of (oversupplied) stuff remains at the same price.

[nightshark]

18 hour days farming and i dont know about you but i make 80-100k a hour plus magic weps and tmaps .

You were making 1.44 - 1.8 mill per day?

You could probably double that by teaching players how to make gold that fast!

[Gicod]

First off, I am shocked that this thread went 6 pages without degenerating into a huge flaming mess...lol

I played OSI through the expansion content from '99 until early '07. Each expansion brought content that was good in its own way, though each expansion also fundamentally changed the game itself. Be it the split, housing, powerscrolls, artifacts, insurance, the Malas trailer park, new races, etc, culminating in the graphic overhaul of the KR client and apparently now you can be a flying monkey or some shit, all of it changed the game radically. Even the seemingly innocuous changes like the UO:R house styles changed the lay of the land and the feel of the world. Eventually, the years of evolution completely gutted the soul out of Ultima Online and the UO we loved was gone forever.

I've been around the MMO world since 99 through several games and content expansions and while each one enhances, it also destroys. UO's expansions are the most glaring example due to its longevity the metamorphosis is much more pronounced. In others such as Dark Age and WoW, the new content rendered most of the old content obsolete. Hell, in WoW they jacked the experience gain in the old areas just so you didnt have to spend much time there so you could fast track into the new lands.

One fact remains, all the new content in the world doesnt keep you from getting burned out and quitting. Eventually you have no more worlds left to conquer or the old gal just aint giving you that stiffy anymore and you move on. Its going to happen if you leave it the same for years or if you add content every week, it doesnt matter. One fact is also true, after a while in any game you start to get nostalgic. You realize that while it may have been buggy or not as flashy way back when, that was still when you had the most fun. Before the devs pandered to the whiny community wanting changes, the almost universally always botched attempts at "balance", or the need to keep up with the market and todays ADD style gamers that require something new every 32.8 seconds to keep their interest, before they dumbed down the game to the point where you are tough and field ready right outta the box (so it seemed) nullifying the accomplishment of the massive hours you spent to get to where you were. That is when the game was the best, but its gone forever.

For UO, the consensus is that T2A was the pinnacle of its life. UOSA is dedicated to preserving that as best as possible. Its not that we are "afraid of change", its the purity of the era we love about UOSA. Sure, there was bad in the good ol days. The was plenty of inconvenience. No one likes getting PK'ed much or cutting bandages, or (my personal pet peeve) getting their runebook stolen, but it too was all part of a collective greatness. The T2A era was a masterpiece, Derrick and staff are the curators of the museum trying as best they can to preserve that with UOSA. You dont change a masterpiece. For certain the actual era can never be recreated fully, <insert argument on internet/Razor/knowledge/multi-clienting here>, but its pretty damn close and thats good enough for me.

Im glad yer sticking around Manfromx, personally I think this thread shows you have a genuine interest in being here, change advocate or not. A genuinely interested player is generally an asset to the community. I hope you can understand the way many of us view the shard and come to see it in the same light and take it for what it is, a rare chance to go back again.

[Lonebob]

I never really thought about it till now but the only gold sink on UOSA is regs and maybe house deeds(if they let it decay). Can anyone else name another? How is it that we aren't super inflated?

[Manfromx]

Yah I hope I don't fall into the trap of just wanting more money here.

UO is really about engaging with the community on some level. Hell the Orc clan on Catskills would give full time PK hunters a run for their money and we only wore Ring chest with an orc helm and boots. Something to be said about 15 friends dressed in the same backing you up .

I hope I can find a niche here to fit into. Helps the game last longer than it would if I was just chasing GM and 10mil.

I'm still an advocate for change. Just rational well thought out change if it ever did occur. Also the beauty of a free shard system is you don't have to split the have and have nots of new expansions. Everyone is on the same page. I think there are right ways and wrong ways of doing it. Pandering to every whim is not the right way. However Dark Age of Camelot expansions I felt were pretty good. They improved the look of the old areas, added cool new classes and balanced a lot of the game that needed it. Wasn't perfect but it was good.

Anyways T2A is really one of the best timelines. The sense of progression here feels really good. Time to work on some more smithing .

[TheEttinKing]

i will buy you irl with uo gold