This whole Era Accurate Argument

[Smelly Ira]

I just wish you guys could admit this isn't the pinnacle of gaming. It's still great though .

What the "pinnacle of gaming" is is totally subjective, For some people the pinnacle of gaming is killing anyone they see, for some it's mining, for some it's riding beetles, for some it's decorating their house with waterfalls for some it's just screwing around.

That's the thing, far as I can tell instead of going the direction you are suggesting and searching for some mythical yet to be invented pinnacle of gaming, the admins decided to take the era, establish criteria for researching it, and use that to decide mechanics and features.

It's almost the opposite of what you are suggesting, and personally I think that's why it works.I am so tired of games constantly trying to please everyone...this way, everyone knows what will determine changes and no one can claim "their side" isn't being represented, because the standard is an impartial set of rules, and requirements to produce evidence.. not some ever-changing idea of what is good according to this or that gamer.

There are definitely flaws with the system and a number of contradictions, but there's a reason people are so adamant about not wanting it changed.

I just see possibility for small improvements that will improve the overall experience for me. I understand you don't feel the same way.

You still aren't getting it...that's the difference between the way this shard does business...it doesn't matter what improvements you see the possibility for because that is not the standard they use for what gets in, they do not solicit people's opinion about new houses or whatever because it is excluded by the objective criteria they are using to determine how things work.

The admins don't solicit player ideas for new stuff to put in...thank god.

Seriously, it's a forgone conclusion...

[Manfromx]

Argh,

I'm not trying to be condescending you guys.

How many times do I have to say.

If you like this. That is cool. I also like it.

Stop making it sound like I know what perfection is.

I don't. Nor am I trying to tell you that my ideas are the greatest ever.

However I'm sure we can all find things that could be changed without ruining the game as a whole. While actually putting more on our plates and keeping it meaningful. Why is this hard to admit to? Why are we pushing to the extremes.

I know everyone has a different ideal of what is right or good. T2A is already pandering to the player base that thinks it's good. That's you! It's here because you are here.

You guys speak of the game like it is perfect. I say that because if anyone suggests that it could be improved the answer is NO. Somehow any change will ruin it. So it's not perfect... but any change will make it worse...

I'm pretty sure you just described perfect.

The reason I'm still in this debate is because of some of the lame arguments. I'm cool with this museum or work of art you guys have built. If that's how you want it treated then fine. I can deal.

Please though. Don't try to tell me that this is as good as it can get.

I'll treat this like it is a way to revisit the past.

If not agreeing with you guys makes me unpopular then I'll take the rough road. I've heard your points. I understand your position. I agree with the museum concept. I disagree with the concept you can't improve anything from T2A without making it worse. Can you understand my position?

P.S. I admitted what seems a long time ago now that this won't change on this shard. So stop telling me I don't get it. I do. I'm arguing against the fallacies in some of these arguments. I'm not arguing for houses since about page 4.

[Smelly Ira]

I understand your position, but there are a million threads like this, and this is a hotly debated subject all over the shard. People are tired of hearing about it, again it's a forgone conclusion, they are not doing what you suggest.

You also aren't listening to what people are saying: There is already an established process for changes, and player desire for new added stuff plays no role in it, i'm not saying I agree wholeheartedly with that necessarily, but that seems to be how it is.

[Manfromx]

I know!

Again I'll apologize for making another thread though . I did search for something on this and unfortunately missed the critical piece of info.

I still don't think some of you understand what I'm trying to say though.

[uofuntime]

lol please explain again ..

[Manfromx]

I want to die lol

Anyways I put my money where my mouth is and did a subscription.

If you doubt my sincerity hopefully that helps.

[benny-]

I understand you guys love the era but I find it funny cutting bandages one by one is compared to a "literary work". I know it's part of the narrative in your mind but unfortunately it's a flawed game mechanic.....

.....I enjoy T2A immensely. I just refuse to worship at the altar of this flawed god. Instead I'll try and donate some bucks to this shard and show that I do appreciate the effort gone into this fine recreation.

I just wish you guys could admit this isn't the pinnacle of gaming. It's still great though .

I think you misunderstand the intent of the staff here and the shared vision by many of us in the community. No one has ever said the era was perfect.....in fact, everyone here will admit that there are aspects of the era that they do not like. However, what we do agree upon is that T2A was (overall) the best era. In order to recreate the fun and excitement of the era, the idea here is to accept and replicate it as a whole.

Other shards have done what you would suggest; they have taken T2A, kept it very similar, but added in features to make it a bit more fresh or to balance things out here and there. But time and time again, these servers slowly get further and further from being like T2A and become more and more custom. Once you deviate from aspects of the era that are accurate for the sake of trying to improve upon the game, what is to stop you from further altering it again and again? What do you tell your community that demands further changes...."well I realize that these features I added aren't like T2A but that's just too unlike T2A..." ? Such an approach would be whimsical at best and would only serve to benefit the wants of the operator, or in the case of an eager-to-please staff; the wants of the current majority...not the best methods for running a solid server.

By sticking to the era only, we do not cater to any specific groups of players, we do not appeal to the whims of the staff, we do not demand changes to benefit us, the game is what it is and it is great.

Furthermore, there were countless attributing factors to what made the era great. One could easily look at a feature and say that it's pointless or simply unnecessary and not realize what impact it has on the overall game.

Since bandages were brought up, I'll use them as an example. Cutting one at a time seems pointless, it provides no fun for the user, it's simply repetitive work that could be easily gotten around by mass-cutting like most servers do. However, before the change was implemented, bandages were essentially worthless. Now, with some time being required to make them (albeit afkable), there is a market for them. This gives new players a good way to get on their feet, as gathering wool can now be quite profitable. Not the biggest, shard-altering feature, but it does serve a purpose. If you start removing things here and there, there's always an impact that will eventually change other parts of the game.

[Manfromx]

I don't have any trouble agreeing to most of what you said benny.

I understand why you guys think things like cutting bandages 1 by 1 is really important. I'd argue the impact of something like that on a new player is pretty low. For hundreds of bandages he could have mined for 15 minutes or killed a couple monsters and 1. gained skill 2. gained money. For the bandages he might gain money if he can sell them without a vendor. Which is a tough thing to do.

I know a lot of you think that any change to T2A takes away from it's authenticity. That's true. The more changes you make the less authentic it is.

In fact I'll go one further and say it's probably a great idea to have one free server out there that is trying to replicate 100% the time period. If that's this server then cool. It serves a historical purpose and gives other free shards an example of what works.

My argument to you is be careful not to hold purity in such high regard. It seems no one here can admit that maybe someone one day could make T2A better than it was. With new things while retaining the distinctive feel. Like I said. T2A is a patched version of UO. It has new things in it that release did not. Many of you were excited patch day. Those days you were more hopeful and optimistic and less bitter and pessimistic.

Now I'm not saying that to make you mad. That's just the attitude I'm seeing here. Many think nothing could ever be improved on. The reasoning for this? Because a couple people have tried and they didn't really succeed. Or they just went to far for your taste.

Let me put it this way. Say tomorrow a new free shard existed. It feels very much like T2A but has new things to do that are balanced exceptionally well. It also has new housing, items, dungeons and monster variety. It adheres to insta-hit and the karma system. It doesn't add anything that feels out of place in UO (like ninjas). Skill progression is rewarding and still challenging. Are you saying that you wouldn't be the slightest bit curious if it had a strong player base?

If not then gaming simply isn't the same thing to me as it is to you. T2A represents the pinnacle of gaming to someone like you. For me I'm always happy to see, explore and experience what someone has created. I'm not going to assume it's automatic fail because it's not era accurate. That's not to say it won't be a failure lol. Free shards are littered with those.

In short I'm not suggesting for this server to abandon it's ideal. Once it was explained to me what this ideal was I was fine with it. I just hate to see a bunch of gamers (my comrades!) with the blinders on.

This server is great. Let's give thanks to the awesome dev and people that make it happen.

I just don't want to get stuck in the trap that there is only one way to play.

[Smelly Ira]

My argument to you is be careful not to hold purity in such high regard. It seems no one here can admit that maybe someone one day could make T2A better than it was. With new things while retaining the distinctive feel. Like I said. T2A is a patched version of UO. It has new things in it that release did not. Many of you were excited patch day. Those days you were more hopeful and optimistic and less bitter and pessimistic

Dude, how is this not getting through to you??

It doesn't matter whether t2a can be improved upon BECAUSE THAT"S NOT WHAT THIS SHARD IS. You are arguing for them to change they way the run the shard, and no one here wants that.

It's already been brought up many times, dead horse. Yours is not the first thread on the subject, and your argument has been answered by everyone with a clear explanation as to WHY they do things this way, you keep ignoring that and posting about some mythical shard that is going to do things your way....why?

When I first came here I would have agreed with you (especially never having played OSI, I have no nostalgic connection to things), but after being here a bit and seeing the difference this kind of process makes when it comes to changes, i'm thoroughly convinced this is a much, much, much better, fairer, more sane way of doing things than the "custom" one.

Let me put it this way. Say tomorrow a new free shard existed. It feels very much like T2A but has new things to do that are balanced exceptionally well. It also has new housing, items, dungeons and monster variety. It adheres to insta-hit and the karma system. It doesn't add anything that feels out of place in UO (like ninjas). Skill progression is rewarding and still challenging. Are you saying that you wouldn't be the slightest bit curious if it had a strong player base?

Yeah well, let us know when that shard exists, because all the other "t2a" shards out there (which BTW use exactly the method you are advocating) have like 50 people logged on and are not worth playing on.

So which method has the proven track record?

[Manfromx]

Dude, how is this not getting through to you??

This is what I wrote right below what you quoted

In short I'm not suggesting for this server to abandon it's ideal. Once it was explained to me what this ideal was I was fine with it. I just hate to see a bunch of gamers (my comrades!) with the blinders on.

[Pac]

My argument to you is be careful not to hold purity in such high regard. It seems no one here can admit that maybe someone one day could make T2A better than it was.

How many times must we staple it to your face:

The idea is to replicated T2A NOT to try to improve or perfect anything. WHO SAID that T2A was perfect? No one, but the idea here isn't to make a UO paradise.

I've heard you over and over, and I know what you're saying, I just don't care. Most of your posts are abundant in snide insinuations that the people here are changeophobes who are just ignorant to what we are doing or what our possibilties are. It's condescending whether you intend it or not.

[Manfromx]

I've heard you over and over, and I know what you're saying, I just don't care. Most of your posts are abundant in snide insinuations that the people here are changeophobes who are just ignorant to what we are doing or what our possibilties are. It's condescending whether you intend it or not.

My apologies Pac.

Didn't mean to piss you off.

I'm not here to change your server.

[Faust]

Manfromx,

I have assisted with every top 'pre uor' based shard for almost ten years now... This is the first large shard to ever stick to a guideline of t2a accuracy with absolutely no exceptions. All of the other shards that altered the game failed. When you make one modification this creates a bad situation with in the playerbase and the staff. The drama that it creates in the community is unpredictable unlike here. The players here know what to expect and there is very little debate besides what is a accurate or not instead of what will be better or not.

Derrick doesn't put himself in a 'developer's role' that is a very controversial position to be in. He simply develops the shard based on the information that is introduced in order to make the game the way it was during this era.

There are plenty of other shards out there that try to tweak the game and will crumble in a matter of time just like the rest that came before it. The vision and guidelines of this shard is the main thing that makes it so successful and the great staff is the thread that holds it together.

UO Second Age is the only shard in the history of emulation that has hit a client count of 500+ by starting out with nothing but an average of 10 clients on opening day if even that... The rest of the major shards like IPY, DFI, and Divinity started with 500+ on opening day. This clearly tells you that there is something very special about this shard to achieve such a major accomplishment.

[Manfromx]

I agree Faust.

This shard is special and a welcome addition.

It's hard to design games and I think the failures in other shards that change things show that.

[DrFaustus]

It has worked well....

I've honestly been surprised, but then again, like what has been stated in this thread a few times already...

Sticking to something no matter who gets pissy about it has yielded reward.