Wrestling for thief?

[Budner]

Here's my thief template:

GM Stealing
GM Stealth
GM Hiding
GM Snooping
30-40 Magery
60-70 Resist

That's 500 points. To which I'm thinking of adding:

GM Fencing
GM Wrestling

Reason for fencing is to use a DP blade for defense purposes. Is it worth it?

Reason for wrestling is 1) less interruption so I can recall/heal more easily. But someone please enlighten me - if I have GM wrestling will it enable me to be hit less often by weaps during melee? If so, it seems like wrestling lets me live a little longer and have a better chance of escaping.

If not wrestling and fencing, what should I include in the template. I thought about detect hidden, but it seems to have pretty limited utility.

I already have a Mage Thief, so I don't want to GM Magery and Eval.

Thanks for any thoughts.

[MatronDeWinter]

As a theif, you really dont have a chance to defend yourself after stealing from someone. If you do steal, and they attack you, if you defend yourself you are eligable to recieve a murder-count and thus, can become kicked from the thieves guild.

The problem with dexer-type theives is that you really just become a noto-killer. You have to flag grey or attack an attackable to get a target that you can thief-pvp.

I would recommend you take on a defensive stance, and do mage/med/wrestle along with whatever else you chose, this way you can heal yourself and continue to steal from a blue target.

[Arkosh Kovasz]

I made a field thief awhile back which works pretty well. I havent died yet one on one. Cant remember the exact numbers but its something like this.

Stealing 90
Snooping 90
Magery 80ish
Meditation 80ish
Healing 81ish
Anatomy 81ish
Resist 98
wrestling GM

Like I said this isnt exact I will edit the post when I get home but, this is pretty close. Not normal 7xGM but it works. You can heal fairly well with bandages, use Greater heals without getting disrupted and steal pretty effectively.

Hopes this gives you some ideas.

[MatronDeWinter]

I have a thief like that too who is..
Stealing 100.0 100.0 0.0 100.0
Wrestling 100.0 100.0 0.0 100.0
Healing 92.7 91.4 0.0 100.0
Magery 91.5 90.0 0.0 100.0
Anatomy 88.6 88.6 0.0 100.0
Meditation 80.0 80.0 0.0 100.0
Resisting Spells 75.0 75.0 0.0 100.0
Snooping 76.5 75.0 0.0 100.0

I intended to gm heal, and keep 80 anat, because that yields higher heals, but I dont play the character any more. Once people learned that you are a thief, they wont let you get anywhere near them. I find it much more beneficial to incorporate stealth into the template.

[Budner]

Thanks very much, I'll keep fiddling with the template. Healing and more magery maybe instead of fencing. One question though - if I have GM wrestling does this mean I am less likely to be hit by a weapon during melee?

[Arkosh Kovasz]

I have a thief like that too who is..
Stealing 100.0 100.0 0.0 100.0
Wrestling 100.0 100.0 0.0 100.0
Healing 92.7 91.4 0.0 100.0
Magery 91.5 90.0 0.0 100.0
Anatomy 88.6 88.6 0.0 100.0
Meditation 80.0 80.0 0.0 100.0
Resisting Spells 75.0 75.0 0.0 100.0
Snooping 76.5 75.0 0.0 100.0

I intended to gm heal, and keep 80 anat, because that yields higher heals, but I dont play the character any more. Once people learned that you are a thief, they wont let you get anywhere near them. I find it much more beneficial to incorporate stealth into the template.

Yea I dont use it for monetary gain per se but I love just harassing a mark, and watching them try to kill me as I just heal through all thier damage until thier mana is gone. Then I laugh and leave. I have a stealth thief which I love. which is something along the lines of:

Stealing:96.4
Hiding:94.6
Snooping:94.6
Stealth:90.0
Detecting Hidden:86.7
Item Identification:85.6
Magery:80.8
Tracking:71.3

This allows for a quick one steal, get the hell outta there recall. The Item Id is useful in occupied house loots or multiple magics in a players pack.

Also Matron I R NEWB, what are all the extra numbers behind your skill values?

And to OP yes you are hit less with 100 wrestling, less chance to be disrupted while casting as well.

[Budner]

Thanks. Arkosh what do you do with Detect Hidden? Is it just a matter of stealthing dungeons and wanting to know who's around? Or revealing players who are hiding from you so that you can't steal from them? Does that cover it, or are there other uses/benefits?

So far I haven't been able to justify Detect Hidden in the template although I do see some use for it.

[MatronDeWinter]

Detect hidden is good for finding traps. But as far as having it on a thief, I have ran into problems.

1.) If you stealth in groups, you reveal your pals

2.) If you use detect, the person usually knows that someone is around.

3.) It takes 80-100 skill points to get any usability out of it. This can obviously be used for better things.

4.) If you just wait, the hider will usually reveal themselves, and your cover remains intact. If you really wanted to reveal them, they are going to see the "You have been revealed message", you are almost better off revealing yourself and casting reveal.

It does have some uses.
1.) On a lockpicker/removetrapper

2.) On a towny dexer or thief hunter

3.) On an all-purpose grief character (this is not a thief)

Also Matron I R NEWB, what are all the extra numbers behind your skill values?

Those are directly copied from razor. I think the format is like
ShownSkill / RealSkill / AmountGained / MaxSkill

[Budner]

Very helpful on the Detect Hidden, thanks Matron.

[Arkosh Kovasz]

Yea I'm ussually solo but the detect is like matron said for traps. I like it for detecting trapped boxes in people houses if I have the chance to make it inside. Also detecting hidden players that Im tracking in dungeons that think they are safe.

Ex. I goto Destard. Recall to a low profile location, and begin to stealth around tracking. Ah! There's someone here. So I track them until it says "John Doe is right here" etc etc. Alas! They are hidden, so I detect them which doesnt give away my location, but brings them into view.

Now this person probably thought "OH DAMN MAN I BEEN FARMING FOR LIKE FIVE HOURS AND I GOTTA TAKE A PISS BAD" so feeling completely safe and hidden he just goes to take care of his/her business. If they dont move after the intial reveal they are probably AFK.

In any case always make sure you can get away if they reveal you, such as having a full step count of stealth available.

So the guy is AFK, which allows me to lead a dragon in his direction,hide and watch the carnage ensue. Then para the dragon and grab the lootz and run! Clean getaway.

[RoadKill]

These are my 2 thieves I play on regular basis, both have pretty high success rates for stealing, surviving, and in many cases, killing the guy I stole from (because they will attack you, and they will become grey to you after a few moments, making them an eligible kill)

Steath Mage
100str 100int 25dex
100 Steal
100 Snoop
100 Stealth
100 Hide
100 Magery
100 Meditation
100 Wrestling

Dexer Thief
100str 100dex 25int
100 Mace
100 Tactics
100 Anatomy
95 Healing
90 Hiding
99.9 Stealing
99.9 Snooping
15.2 Magery
The 99.9s are to keep people from looking on MyUOSA and seeing you're a thief (cause if you GM them, they might show up in your "Top 3 skills" listing

I ALWAYS use a disguise kit, and with enough practice you'll be able to take out most people with these 2 templates in 1v1 dungeonee situation.

[Arkosh Kovasz]

Since were getting pretty good feedback from experienced thieves I'd like to know some tactics you guys use in actually stealing from a target while engaged in combat.

I use the old last object for popping packs, set last target, and a hotkey for steal last target. Problems I constantly run into are numerous packs, and packs closing while running around. Also Never use random steals much.

Any tips or advice?

[Oswald]

I found stealth to be of marginal usefulness.

The problems I had were:

1) Took forever to get anywhere - if you plan on stealthing around and stealing something significant outside of town it's going to take a ton of time just to get anywhere near someone and...

2) Stealing has a one tile distance, and a lot of players tend to be pretty spastic - it's really annoying when you get right next to someone only to have them jerk away and then you have to burn another 10s cooldown to take another few steps

3) Tracking spots stealth NP

4) Virtually useless for escape. You're better off with recall. Good luck trying to get a hide off when someone is chasing you and stealth away, even if you have GM hiding/stealth

That said, if you want to go pure thief you should do the magery route, but if you want a dexxer thief who can fight people like the BPD who attack you when you're permagrey then drop stealth.

[RoadKill]

I won't go into details of how I play my thieve on the board, but a good rule of thumb is ALWAYS steal their recall rune(s) first - this almost always gets them to attack you, or they just begin running out of the dungeon, regardless it makes for a great time

[MatronDeWinter]

Stealth is my favorite skill.

You can cast invis, and stealth (to avoid the delay) and be far away before they think to reveal. Same thing with invis items. The trick is to anticipate where they are going to reveal, and not be there. I know that sounds like obvious advice, but it does not usually mean stealthing "away".

People are spastic, but eventually they settle down, just be patient and use that "set last target" macro.

As far as opening bags, you just have to be quick with it.