Do you enjoy the pvp mechanics of uosecondage?

[Faust]

I feel sorry for that kid, seriously...

There is a reason for why all his contributions(if you want to call it that) lie in the trash talk section of the forums.

Wait so Faust your saying after its patched, while on the run I can equip a halby and 3 seconds later itll be ready to hit when I catch them?

If you have the amount of stamina that is required for a hally to swing in 3 seconds, then yes it will be possible(sort of). The only major difference with the original swing timer compared to the UOR version we are using now is when the range check is made for your combatant. A swing was unable to be held in a holding state during the Pre:UOR eras. This was changed briefly after the UOR publish went live.

[MatronDeWinter]

So the swing timer loops? (no held state)

Meaning, it would be a bit like swinging every 3 seconds (or whatever depending on stamina/speed) and hoping that you opponent is near you when you swing?

An altercation of this would be an example like this:

2 dexers with exactly the same skills/stats/equipment.

One starts combat 1.5 seconds after the other one. They each take 3 seconds per swing. It would be possible for dexer #1 to hit dexer #2 and then evade dexer #2's attack by not being in range. They would not hit at the same time because the swing is not held, and since one started after the other, their frequency is out of phase?

[jamieirl]

I am absolutely confident that mount fatigue/stamina is precise for the specific era that is being replicated here.

I'm surprised more people didn't correct this, I didn't think I'd have to. Anyone who played preUOR and used a horse knows that horse stamina on this server does not work the same way it did on preUOR paytoplay servers. I think I was even able to fatigue my horse with the 33.3 sportster modem I started playing UO with. Definetly with a cable modem, (which yes many people did have preUOR, as well as DSL, and *shudders* idsn) I got a cable modem towards the end of preUOR.

Also Faust, and don't take this the wrong way, but are you staff here? The reason I ask is because you're "absoltely confident that mount fatigue/stamina is precise for the specific era that is being replicated here." and you're absolutely wrong. I don't know what code is not working properly or anything specific like that, but I do know that mounts don't function as they did preUOR, and I think anyone who played preUOR would agree with that. If you are staff (and I don't think you are) then I'd be concerned about you being so sure that something is arrucate to the era, when it clearly isn't, it would make me wonder about other "accuracies" on UOSA.

[nightshark]

So the swing timer loops? (no held state)

Meaning, it would be a bit like swinging every 3 seconds (or whatever depending on stamina/speed) and hoping that you opponent is near you when you swing?

An altercation of this would be an example like this:

2 dexers with exactly the same skills/stats/equipment.

One starts combat 1.5 seconds after the other one. They each take 3 seconds per swing. It would be possible for dexer #1 to hit dexer #2 and then evade dexer #2's attack by not being in range. They would not hit at the same time because the swing is not held, and since one started after the other, their frequency is out of phase?

Judging by the entire premise of insta-hit I'd say no.. if this was the case, we wouldn't be able to do exp-eb-hally combos because the swing timer would never be held in that "ready" state, if I'm catching your's and faust's drift. But TBH I really didn't understand faust's post.

[Faust]

So the swing timer loops? (no held state)

Meaning, it would be a bit like swinging every 3 seconds (or whatever depending on stamina/speed) and hoping that you opponent is near you when you swing?

An altercation of this would be an example like this:

2 dexers with exactly the same skills/stats/equipment.

One starts combat 1.5 seconds after the other one. They each take 3 seconds per swing. It would be possible for dexer #1 to hit dexer #2 and then evade dexer #2's attack by not being in range. They would not hit at the same time because the swing is not held, and since one started after the other, their frequency is out of phase?

Yes, sort of correct. Both would actually initiate combat at the same time because of auto defending. There are a lot of other functions in the code that can throw off the counter and the timer in general. The entire scope of the timer is actually very detailed but rather hard to fully understand without reading the original code itself. Being able to understand it from reading the code itself is still rather hard. It takes a lot of time and debugging to fully understand it. Batlin wrote a few programs that made this task relatively easy and the original timer was easily decoded by us.

I'm surprised more people didn't correct this, I didn't think I'd have to. Anyone who played preUOR and used a horse knows that horse stamina on this server does not work the same way it did on preUOR paytoplay servers. I think I was even able to fatigue my horse with the 33.3 sportster modem I started playing UO with. Definetly with a cable modem, (which yes many people did have preUOR, as well as DSL, and *shudders* idsn) I got a cable modem towards the end of preUOR.

Also Faust, and don't take this the wrong way, but are you staff here? The reason I ask is because you're "absoltely confident that mount fatigue/stamina is precise for the specific era that is being replicated here." and you're absolutely wrong. I don't know what code is not working properly or anything specific like that, but I do know that mounts don't function as they did preUOR, and I think anyone who played preUOR would agree with that. If you are staff (and I don't think you are) then I'd be concerned about you being so sure that something is arrucate to the era, when it clearly isn't, it would make me wonder about other "accuracies" on UOSA.

No, I am not staff here.

Staff members are not allowed to play the server with a regular account and that is something that does not interest me.

I am confident it's correct because Batlin(another non-staff member) has decompiled the original OSI code. Take a little time to get familiar with his work and you will understand why this is so important to this subject. Batlin was the person that worked on horse stamina and it's absolutely correct matching the horse fatigue code that OSI used. Go back to the discussion with this information to see how it was worked out in the discussion with Derrick and him.

Sure, there are some people that think they remember it differently but that doesn't really matter in my honest opinion. There is a difference between having the original code and a memory when reverse engineering this game mechanic along with every other one. One is realible and the other isn't.

There has been a lot of change in the way the replication process works here since you have been gone protagonist.

Judging by the entire premise of insta-hit I'd say no.. if this was the case, we wouldn't be able to do exp-eb-hally combos because the swing timer would never be held in that "ready" state, if I'm catching your's and faust's drift. But TBH I really didn't understand faust's post.

The oringial swing timer code has a lot more behavior involved with it than what I have already described involving a process based on 'states'. This other behavior isn't easy to understand unless you know the code inside and out. If you're interested with the entire details please review this portion of Batlin's decompiled code over at JoinUO.com to get a full or better understanding of it.

[jamieirl]

I'm surprised more people didn't correct this, I didn't think I'd have to. Anyone who played preUOR and used a horse knows that horse stamina on this server does not work the same way it did on preUOR paytoplay servers. I think I was even able to fatigue my horse with the 33.3 sportster modem I started playing UO with. Definetly with a cable modem, (which yes many people did have preUOR, as well as DSL, and *shudders* idsn) I got a cable modem towards the end of preUOR.

Also Faust, and don't take this the wrong way, but are you staff here? The reason I ask is because you're "absoltely confident that mount fatigue/stamina is precise for the specific era that is being replicated here." and you're absolutely wrong. I don't know what code is not working properly or anything specific like that, but I do know that mounts don't function as they did preUOR, and I think anyone who played preUOR would agree with that. If you are staff (and I don't think you are) then I'd be concerned about you being so sure that something is arrucate to the era, when it clearly isn't, it would make me wonder about other "accuracies" on UOSA.

No, I am not staff here.

Staff members are not allowed to play the server with a regular account and that is something that does not interest me.

I am confident it's correct because Batlin(another non-staff member) has decompiled the original OSI code. Take a little time to get familiar with his work and you will understand why this is so important to this subject. Batlin was the person that worked on horse stamina and it's absolutely correct matching the horse fatigue code that OSI used. Go back to the discussion with this information to see how it was worked out in the discussion with Derrick and him.

Sure, there are some people that think they remember it differently but that doesn't really matter in my honest opinion. There is a difference between having the original code and a memory when reverse engineering this game mechanic along with every other one. One is realible and the other isn't.

There has been a lot of change in the way the replication process works here since you have been gone protagonist.

I understand that UOSA puts a lot of time and effort into finding whatever it is that they look for (code, archives, whatever) in order to be era accurate, that doesn't mean it's not possible that something ends up inaccurate, regardless of the quality coders/developers. You can go on and on about specifics in the code and why you think the horse stamina on UOSA is era accurate. The fact is you're telling everyone who played during preUOR that they are imagining things. This isn't a little thing that we (preUOR players) are just forgetting, everyone used horses and everyone was well aware of how easily it was to run them out of stamina. Literally everyone who was on a horse had some fruit on them because if you wanted to sprint for any length of time you would most def. need to feed your horse. Horse fatigue of preUOR was something as commonplace as precasting and no trammel, trust me, we remember. This isn't some small insignificant detail in the process of smithing a sword or something, we're talking about something that everyone experienced and go ahead and give it a try and ask people who played preUOR if horses could run around the entire map without getting fatigued. That was something that began well into UOR, I think that it was even meant to be changed back, but never was.

The reason that this is significant to a question asking whether or not I like the pvp here is because it was a big presence in every pvp battle where the participants were using horses (nearly always). When pvpers were riding their horses around the lands looking for bad guys they were walking, saving their horses stamina for when they needed it most. We only ran when we were A. being chased or B. chasing. If you started running around willy nilly looking for someone to peeveepee you'd be out of stamina by the time you found someone. Someone mentioned that you couldn't get on your horse if someone attacked it, (maybe you mentioned this Faust, I don't remember) this is true. It was a very very very common site to see people jumping off of their horses mid-fight to feed them, and half of the time those horses didn't get to see another day. It's one thing to debate the specifics of something not clearly noticeable like swing timers or at what skill level one could make a katana. You telling me and other people that the horse stamina on UOSA is era accurate is about the equivalent of you telling us that there was paralyzing blow during preUOR.

In conclusion, you're definitely wrong, and I'm definitely right

[Faust]

Will post it again.

Ride-able Animals Fatigue
The exploit that allows a ride-able animal to be refreshed after becoming fatigued will be addressed. Feeding a ride-able animal food will increase its stamina and all ride-able animals will have the amount of time they can be ridden before becoming fatigued increased.

You are talking about a time period that was during the UOR era.

No offense but just because you say you're right doesn't mean anything...

Original code + patch + articles > "i am right"

in all honesty...

[nightshark]

If horse stam was increased in March 2000, this suggests low horse stam was an issue. Low horse stam being an issue in PvP went on long after this patch, believe me. I could fatigue my nightmares on my tamer without too much difficulty and that was more than a year after UO:R.

In 2001 or 2002, or whenever vet rewards came in, ethereal horses had far more stam than a regular horse, more on par with a nightmare - and did not require casting. I would ride around on a regular horse in PvP, despite having ethys, because at least if your horse ran out of stam and it got killed, you could jump on your ethy - there was no way to replenish ethy stam (and all ethys in your pack used the same pool of stam). OSI saw this kind of abuse (giving vet players an advantage) and changed ethys to require casting.

Horse stam was such a big issue that myself and many others can remember specific issues involved with fatiguing mounts from 10 years ago. If horses here are really accurate to the demo, I've gotta say that their stam must have been reduced somewhere along the line.

Regarding the swing timer, I'm really interested - I'm gonna have a read when I get home.

[jamieirl]

Will post it again.

Ride-able Animals Fatigue
The exploit that allows a ride-able animal to be refreshed after becoming fatigued will be addressed. Feeding a ride-able animal food will increase its stamina and all ride-able animals will have the amount of time they can be ridden before becoming fatigued increased.

You are talking about a time period that was during the UOR era.

No offense but just because you say you're right doesn't mean anything...

Original code + patch + articles > "i am right"

in all honesty...

Assuming that you're posting that in reply to me; I don't doubt that there was a bug to refresh your horses stamina more easily than usual. That doesn't change anything that it said.

If anything you actually strengthened my argument by posting this. Those were the changes to be implemented with trammel. Trust me I remember all of that crap, and I remember the first day they came into effect. My pk died to a paralyzing blow that day, and people were getting one hitted by war hammer wielding macers dishing out concussion blows to all of the people that flagged after looting a lich because they didn't know about the new addition of "looting rights". And it didn't get any better, anyway...

So what you've shown with that post is that there was horse stamina loss before preuor that was significant enough to make people exploit a bug to get around it. I don't remember that bug but I wouldn't doubt for a second that it existed. Like I said in my previous post, there was stamina loss during preuor and at the start of UOR, showing a post that talks about fixing a stamina loss bug at the start of UOR doesn't help you.

Did you play preUOR Faust? I mean there's nothing wrong with not having played preUOR who cares. I'm just confused because you don't sound like you did based on the things that you say. Yet you're surprisingly stubborn when it comes to thinking you know better about the era than multiple people that played it. I mean why should you know better than us?

[jamieirl]

If horse stam was increased in March 2000, this suggests low horse stam was an issue. Low horse stam being an issue in PvP went on long after this patch, believe me. I could fatigue my nightmares on my tamer without too much difficulty and that was more than a year after UO:R.

In 2001 or 2002, or whenever vet rewards came in, ethereal horses had far more stam than a regular horse, more on par with a nightmare - and did not require casting. I would ride around on a regular horse in PvP, despite having ethys, because at least if your horse ran out of stam and it got killed, you could jump on your ethy - there was no way to replenish ethy stam (and all ethys in your pack used the same pool of stam). OSI saw this kind of abuse (giving vet players an advantage) and changed ethys to require casting.

Horse stam was such a big issue that myself and many others can remember specific issues involved with fatiguing mounts from 10 years ago. If horses here are really accurate to the demo, I've gotta say that their stam must have been reduced somewhere along the line.

Regarding the swing timer, I'm really interested - I'm gonna have a read when I get home.

You're exactly right about the horse stamina time frames. I remember getting my ehty's fatigued and that was just the end of it. Horses of course got fatigue very quickly, war horses were the way to go as it was actually hard to fatigue those things. Remember when factions first came out and people were killing each other with their war horses? Lol to that, another wonderful feature of UOR.....

You also raise an interesting theory about why faust thinks that horse stamina on uosa works like it did preuor. Perhaps horse stamina was simply increased to that of say, a war horse, or a nightmare. If the code really is "exactly as it was during the era" but the horses stamina is much higher than it was during the era, that could explain why horses don't get fatigued like they did during preUOR. And they certainly don't get fatigued on uosa like they did preUOR, that's completely out of the question.

So faust, do you have the data or whatever that shows what horse stamina was during preUOR as well as on UOSA?

[Dr. Octagonecologyst]

LOLOLOL. Who cares if the discussion is with him. He said no accuracy discussions, say you piece and then you are done. Man you are a completely inept. I feel sorry for anyone that had to interact with you irl, I am surprised no one has killed you yet.

gtfo troll, this doesn't need to be moved to trash talk

LOL. You are about as smart as Faust. Say if you like the pvp mechanics why or why not and be done with it. There is a whole forum dedicated to era accuracy so stfu.

[Dr. Octagonecologyst]

I feel sorry for that kid, seriously...

There is a reason for why all his contributions(if you want to call it that) lie in the trash talk section of the forums.

Wait so Faust your saying after its patched, while on the run I can equip a halby and 3 seconds later itll be ready to hit when I catch them?

If you have the amount of stamina that is required for a hally to swing in 3 seconds, then yes it will be possible(sort of). The only major difference with the original swing timer compared to the UOR version we are using now is when the range check is made for your combatant. A swing was unable to be held in a holding state during the Pre:UOR eras. This was changed briefly after the UOR publish went live.

At least I don't feed my kids with government cheese.

[Faust]

Will post it again.

Ride-able Animals Fatigue
The exploit that allows a ride-able animal to be refreshed after becoming fatigued will be addressed. Feeding a ride-able animal food will increase its stamina and all ride-able animals will have the amount of time they can be ridden before becoming fatigued increased.

You are talking about a time period that was during the UOR era.

No offense but just because you say you're right doesn't mean anything...

Original code + patch + articles > "i am right"

in all honesty...

Assuming that you're posting that in reply to me; I don't doubt that there was a bug to refresh your horses stamina more easily than usual. That doesn't change anything that it said.

If anything you actually strengthened my argument by posting this. Those were the changes to be implemented with trammel. Trust me I remember all of that crap, and I remember the first day they came into effect. My pk died to a paralyzing blow that day, and people were getting one hitted by war hammer wielding macers dishing out concussion blows to all of the people that flagged after looting a lich because they didn't know about the new addition of "looting rights". And it didn't get any better, anyway...

So what you've shown with that post is that there was horse stamina loss before preuor that was significant enough to make people exploit a bug to get around it. I don't remember that bug but I wouldn't doubt for a second that it existed. Like I said in my previous post, there was stamina loss during preuor and at the start of UOR, showing a post that talks about fixing a stamina loss bug at the start of UOR doesn't help you.

Did you play preUOR Faust? I mean there's nothing wrong with not having played preUOR who cares. I'm just confused because you don't sound like you did based on the things that you say. Yet you're surprisingly stubborn when it comes to thinking you know better about the era than multiple people that played it. I mean why should you know better than us?

Please try to follow the timeline here... We have the exact code that OSI used in late '98. I don't mean a guess or basis off of some article or even a patch. I literally mean the exact code that was used with a hundred percent accuracy. There is no patch, discussion, article, google groups, or anything that mentions a change with mount fatigue/stamina from that point in time until that UOR patch that I listed above in my previous posts. The argument here is quite simple and should be very easy to understand.

We have Point A(early t2a) that leads to Point B(UOR) here.

I am simply stating that the code for mount fatigue is most certainly correct and very accurate.

This doesn't necessarily mean the amount of stamina horses or any mount for that matter is accurate. There are one too many people here that tend to look at only the major portion of a game mechanic or system, and simply disregard others that may have an effect on it indirectly. A possible tweak for these mobiles is more likely to happen behind the scenes than a major overhaul of the entire mount fatigue code. This type of approach that is more realistic from a programmers/analyst perspective was done in the UOR patch.

[jamieirl]

Will post it again.

Ride-able Animals Fatigue
The exploit that allows a ride-able animal to be refreshed after becoming fatigued will be addressed. Feeding a ride-able animal food will increase its stamina and all ride-able animals will have the amount of time they can be ridden before becoming fatigued increased.

You are talking about a time period that was during the UOR era.

No offense but just because you say you're right doesn't mean anything...

Original code + patch + articles > "i am right"

in all honesty...

Assuming that you're posting that in reply to me; I don't doubt that there was a bug to refresh your horses stamina more easily than usual. That doesn't change anything that it said.

If anything you actually strengthened my argument by posting this. Those were the changes to be implemented with trammel. Trust me I remember all of that crap, and I remember the first day they came into effect. My pk died to a paralyzing blow that day, and people were getting one hitted by war hammer wielding macers dishing out concussion blows to all of the people that flagged after looting a lich because they didn't know about the new addition of "looting rights". And it didn't get any better, anyway...

So what you've shown with that post is that there was horse stamina loss before preuor that was significant enough to make people exploit a bug to get around it. I don't remember that bug but I wouldn't doubt for a second that it existed. Like I said in my previous post, there was stamina loss during preuor and at the start of UOR, showing a post that talks about fixing a stamina loss bug at the start of UOR doesn't help you.

Did you play preUOR Faust? I mean there's nothing wrong with not having played preUOR who cares. I'm just confused because you don't sound like you did based on the things that you say. Yet you're surprisingly stubborn when it comes to thinking you know better about the era than multiple people that played it. I mean why should you know better than us?

Please try to follow the timeline here... We have the exact code that OSI used in late '98. I don't mean a guess or basis off of some article or even a patch. I literally mean the exact code that was used with a hundred percent accuracy. There is no patch, discussion, article, google groups, or anything that mentions a change with mount fatigue/stamina from that point in time until that UOR patch that I listed above in my previous posts. The argument here is quite simple and should be very easy to understand.

We have Point A(early t2a) that leads to Point B(UOR) here.

I am simply stating that the code for mount fatigue is most certainly correct and very accurate.

This doesn't necessarily mean the amount of stamina horses or any mount for that matter is accurate. There are one too many people here that tend to look at only the major portion of a game mechanic or system, and simply disregard others that may have an effect on it indirectly.

You make it sound as if you were saying all along that it could possibly be something other than the code that's causing the horse stamina on uosa to not function properly. All I was saying is that it's not right, I didn't say anything about code. And all you were saying was that it was right, along with why you think it's right, which was because of the code. We weren't discussing how and why it wasn't right, we were discussing whether or not it was or wasn't right. Just thought I'd clarify

You actually sound like one of the people that you described;

"There are one too many people here that tend to look at only the major portion of a game mechanic or system, and simply disregard others that may have an effect on it indirectly"

All that I've said here about horse stamina is that it's not accurate. I know that because I played preUOR and it was something that was significant enough in my UO playing that I remember it with clarity. Many others in this thread remember it too, because they played preUOR.

You're the only one saying anything about code.

Give it up Faust, we played then and we remember it. It doesn't matter to me why it doesn't work correctly here, I was just saying that it doesn't.

[Faust]

I have clearly been saying that the mount fatigue code is precise and accurate, nothing more.