IRC SUGGESTION

[Caranthir]

Why is everyone mentioned in your proposed list of mods have an overwhelming number of trash talk posts besides Blackfoot?

Do you honestly think Derrick is going to ever consider giving mod status with anything shard related to someone that was perma banned for selling in game items and gloated about having a friend become a corrupt GM to distribute them?

It's not about the mods but about rules being randomly and arbitrarily enforced. Who cares who the mods are, the point is that #secondage is not just a help channel as was claimed, but rather a community channel where people chat while at work or while playing UO.

[Faust]

Who cares about the mods?

Why do you think this is being proposed in the first place?

Complaints about the current mod situation is fueling this... saying 'who cares who the mods are' does not help this argument one bit at all. I don't like some of the currrent and past mod situations. However, the difference between most people and me is that I look at the whole scope instead of what is just on the surface. I don't know what it is with people living in their little personal box of opinions that simply disregard everything else. Solutions to the many problems in this world would be much better off if people would actually take that approach towards them.

[Pro]

i just mentioned sandor b/c hes been running a decent irc channel for a while and myself because im an ego

[Derrick]

There has rarely been an issue with off topic conversation in #secondage. When a moderator feels that the conversation is overpowering the channel, I see nothing wrong with suggesting that the conversation be moved elsewhere.

Any bans enacted were not a result of discussing sports in channel, but because of outrage over the simple suggestion the conversation be moved.

Making another channel is not a solution. We've been toying with the idea for a week or so, but it will just be the same problem, we'll direct all IRC clients from the website to join #secondagehelp, and no one will know how to get into #secondage for general discussion; #secondagehelp will suffer the same problems as #secondage does now.

The solution is, make your own channel, or join #secondagepvp.

#secondagepvp was set up explicitly as a less moderated channel just like the suggestion of the OP. But now there is even a player channel, #uosapvp which has a decent number of participants.

Or, make your own channel for discussion and mod whoever you want.

[Faust]

I still don't get the concept behind #uosapvp when there was already a pvp channel to begin with that wasn't modded.

[punk]

There has rarely been an issue with off topic conversation in #secondage. When a moderator feels that the conversation is overpowering the channel, I see nothing wrong with suggesting that the conversation be moved elsewhere.

Any bans enacted were not a result of discussing sports in channel, but because of outrage over the simple suggestion the conversation be moved.

Making another channel is not a solution. We've been toying with the idea for a week or so, but it will just be the same problem, we'll direct all IRC clients from the website to join #secondagehelp, and no one will know how to get into #secondage for general discussion; #secondagehelp will suffer the same problems as #secondage does now.

The solution is, make your own channel, or join #secondagepvp.

#secondagepvp was set up explicitly as a less moderated channel just like the suggestion of the OP. But now there is even a player channel, #uosapvp which has a decent number of participants.

Or, make your own channel for discussion and mod whoever you want.

Again, this is a good idea in theory, but it never works. UOSApvp tried to do that, we have 0% of the new players idling it, 10% of the crafters, and only 50% of the PvPers. It never will compete with the main channel, no other channel will...

Part of the allure to the main channel is that its a mixture of everyone, the new players with the vets, crafters with the pvpers. Any sub channel will merely be cliques forming off. I dont need IRC to allow me to chat with my clique, we have vent, in game, AIM, ICQ, etc for that. IRC should be an entire community coming together and getting to know each other, in game and out. And no other channel will have that community aspect other than the main channel. All other channels are purely for established friends/groups to have more private discussions.

We don't need 100 channels for each topic you want to talk about. IRC is literally dead in the morning anyway until the soccer games start, and even when the random noob does want to ask a question, all the active IRC chatters (read: all the people chatting about soccer) jump on it and answer immediately. The main channel (the one thats defaulted, the one that's advertised) should be a continual discussion by UOSA players about whatever is happening in UO or the real world at that moment.

I understand that when its a continual discussion and not spurts of small discussions or question/answer type discussion that it makes your jobs as moderators much harder. In which case, you should voice or op a small number of people who are most active in the big discussion.

Also, I am most active in answering noobs irc help when i'm watching and discussing soccer or partaking in a big overarching discussion with people, and its probably the same with other people as well.

tl;dr version:
-Any player run channel will never have the same feeling as the main irc channel, an entire community coming together getting to know each other in game and out
-IRC is dead anyways around the time that the soccer games are even taking place
-All the people watching and discussing soccer are the ones answering newbies questions anyways, in fact they are most helpful during the games and soccer discussions.

[BlackFoot]

I dont know much baout how irc or the java one work but heres an idea
I am guessing a lot (majority?) of people connecting to irc for the first time and afterwards use the java link

So you click the IRC LINK on main page and it links to a page/window and in that window -
Perhaps there could be a list right there on the mainpage of 2-3 links witht he java thing
Each link opens that java client to a specific channel

So link 1 - Moderated General Shard questions/help/discussion - #secondage
link 2 - Unmoderated Community chatroom - #uosapvp (or which ever other)
link 3 - Moderated trade channel - #secondagetrade

Then a list of other active channels relating to the shard
People could volunteer their public irc channels with a quick explaination of how to join them once using the java client
examples - #uoh - UoH guild channel
- #secondagepvp - pvp related trash talk channel
- #bloodrock - Orc rp channel



Thoughts?

[Izual]

Wouldn't this suggestion be biased with too many kick/bans thrown around? Especially if a MOD is PvPing with a non-MOD. With the immaturity level of some UOPlayers, i'm sure that wouldn't turn out good.

[Pro]

Wouldn't this suggestion be too biased with too many kick/bans thrown around? Especially if a MOD is PvPing with a non-MOD. With the immaturity level of some UOPlayers, i'm sure that wouldn't turn out good.

then don't mod those players...

[Izual]

then don't mod those players...

Then I suppose your not an option

[MatronDeWinter]

It's probably better to just create a player-ran channel, but create rules for the moderators to follow, essentially barring them from doing anything other than banning spammers/advertisers. Otherwise the corruption will run rampant.

[Pro]

then don't mod those players...

Then I suppose your not an option

Just because i talk everyone doesn't mean I don't treat them fairly or would have some bias against certain people.

[Pro]

Also it just seems to me that the channel rules are messed up anyway all you can really do is ask for help/get help but the majority of the channel don't need that so why would it ever be in place?

[Derrick]

Part of the allure to the main channel is that its a mixture of everyone, the new players with the vets, crafters with the pvpers. Any sub channel will merely be cliques forming off. I dont need IRC to allow me to chat with my clique, we have vent, in game, AIM, ICQ, etc for that. IRC should be an entire community coming together and getting to know each other, in game and out. And no other channel will have that community aspect other than the main channel. All other channels are purely for established friends/groups to have more private discussions.

I agree, and it's never been said to my knowledge by us that you can't discuss other things in #secondage. There is a rule about religion, politics and drugs (read as politics again) because these topics get out of hand.

It was suggested to join a channel dedicated to the soccer game because it was felt that the conversation was saturating the room. No one was banned for kicked for talking about soccer; but on backlash from the request, which I feel was a perfectly reasonable one at the time. No new policy was being set. There were complaints and a request was made to cut down the soccer talk. There has been additional talk about the games since in the channel, no big deal.

The idea that if you don't like the way the channel is being moderated is to respond by attacking the moderator has to stop.

Also it just seems to me that the channel rules are messed up anyway all you can really do is ask for help/get help but the majority of the channel don't need that so why would it ever be in place?

It's not nor has it ever been in place. You are confusing statements of people who are trying to undermine our IRC policy, with the actual policy itself.