Blessed Items should break from damage [reposted]

[BlackFoot]

How many peopel aquired their custom katana through the custom silver system, then told exactly what they were getting before chosing it?

all of those items have been altered/accurate versions introduced

custom ranger armour through trophys - was not blessed/newbied
era accurate ranger armour through christmas - is blessed/newbied

Custom UOSA black dye tubs through trophys - 1 charge undyeable
era accurate black dye tubs - unlimited charges, dyable

Custom UOSA pheonix armour prize - not blessed/newbied
era accurate CUB pheonix armour - blessed/newbied

Custom UOSA special hair dye prior to 2009 - neon tones available
era accurate hair dye available through CUB - no neon tones available

Custom UOSA furniture dye tubs - Limited charges (charges have been altered)
Era accurate furniture dye tubs - Unlimited charges

etc

To follow suit as has been done through the entirety of UOSA's history would be to introduce the era accurate item in an era accurate manner (exception of black dye tubs), grandfathering all custom rewards obtained before that point.

If you want to alter the custom rewards available through the system you need to do so moving forward.
People who got 10 charge tubs would be out of luck as furniture dye tubs would become unlimited moving forward.

Even more interestingly, even after the era accurate versions of some custom turn in items became available through era accurate means, the Custom trophy turn in items that are very similar kept their unique custom properties. Today if you turn in for pheonix armour it will not be blessed. This is clearly inaccurate and known to be inaccurate. It is this way because it is a Custom reward made available through a custom system. Furniture dye tubs have charges and are not unlimited as would be era accurate. This is because it is a Custom reward made available through a custom system.

These custom bless deeds aquired through this custom system were known to be inaccurate to era deeds. This is because they were known to be Custom items made available through a custom system.

They should all have had different names from the beginning to avoid this confusion.

[Ardos]

They removed neon from the list of available mask colors (thankfully).

Unlimited black dye tubs were introduced, degrading the value of the limited trophy-ones.

But there has been no "patching" of the items themselves to my knowledge.

This thread is on a mechanical change that proves true to era accuracy. It does not change the actual reward from this system. It says you get a deed, and you still get a deed. Only the mechanics of blessed clothing change, and only slightly. I cannot understand why someone would be for things like cutting bandages one at a time (which effects everyone), but totally against something that would require an extrordinarily small percentage of the population (less than 1%) to unequip something occasionally.

Yet the neon masks in existence were not changed because of the patch, just as the current blessed items should not be made breakable because that was the understood way they functioned. The entire base of your arguement is ridiculous.

[Fwerp]

Matron - re-read the past few page of this thread. The lion's share of your posts have been borderline-laughable strawman arguments with Blackfoot. To accuse someone else of constructing strawman arguments in the context of this thread is troubling.

[Mikel123]

I can only post so many times that I agree era accurate clothing bless deeds should be era accurate.

These are custom prizes awarded to players through a custom system.

This is nonsense, IMO.

If there was a choice to purchase a "clothing bless deed" from the turn-in, then you get a clothing bless deed. If the guide said "custom clothing bless deed" or "unbreakable clothing bless deed", then I would 100% agree with you. But it doesn't. It says "clothing bless deed" because we all know what those are and what they did in 1999, and if we don't we can look them up.

Likewise, with a piece of phoenix armor. I know exactly what that is... It's not a "custom" piece of phoenix armor, it's not a piece of phoenix armor from 2004, or from the Samurai Empire expansion pack, it's a piece of phoenix armor from 1999.

I could respect your stance a lot more if you just said, "Look, I realize it would be accurate for these to break, but I don't think they have a gamebreaking impact as unbreakable, I think it's a nice feature to have on this shard, it helps new players identify me and others as trusted brokers, and it adds a little unique flavor to the shard." That's honesty, and I think it's a decent argument.

What's dishonest, in my opinion, is trying to claim that some random GM conversation that one person on the shard may or may not have had, that no one can actually verify, explained to you that in addition to being exactly like what a clothing bless deed used to be, they also made the piece of clothing unbreakable. A feature that was somehow important enough to bring up in casual conversation, but not important enough to post on the guide on the forum next to the prize.

I don't believe the majority of CBD owners took the time to ask and ensure the CBD made their item unbreakable. I believe they simply assumed it. So they failed to do their due diligence, just like I failed to do mine when I bought a katana under the impression that it was the fastest weapon, simply because at that moment in time, on our shard, it was. Had I, or the CBD purchasers, done our homework, we would have realized we were making purchases that were based on item properties that were inaccurate. Heck, staff didn't do their homework either, and created inaccurate items. But rather than own up to it, everyone's running around claiming that this was all somehow on purpose, that they knew they were buying era-INaccurate CBD's despite the fact that the entire goal of the shard is accuracy and nowhere in the prize guide does it say that.

[marmalade]

to suggest that admins were not aware of the 'bug' that caused blessed items to be unbreakable is stupid. the fact that they were made very difficult to obtain due to their price alone suggests staff were completely aware of the properties of blessed items. had they decided to make blessed items breakable from the beginning, the price for CBDs would have been considerably lower. they knew blessed items on OSI were breakable, and they made an active decision to make them unbreakable here, as is evident by the price of CBDs in the silver reward system. had they intended on making them breakable from the start, the price would have been lower and they would have been (as someone said earlier) a dime a dozen.

katanas, on the other hand, were thought to be the fastest weapons in the game until new evidence suggested otherwise. you cant compare the two.

[Mikel123]

to suggest that admins were not aware of the 'bug' that caused blessed items to be unbreakable is stupid. the fact that they were made very difficult to obtain due to their price alone suggests staff were completely aware of the properties of blessed items.

This is complete and utter BS. If they were known to be breakable back in the day, the second response on this thread would be Kaivan or Derrick saying "No sh1t sherlock, we did this on purpose obv." And it would have saved 15 pages of ridiculous arguments like the one marmalade is trying to make. And of course, in the prize guide, it would say "clothing bless deed - unbreakable". Just like if any other prize differed from the same item in 1999, it would be explained as such. If they were giving out purple phoenix armor, it would say "Phoenix armor - purple". If it was orange, like it originally was, it would say "phoenix armor", like it does.

It "suggests" that they went with the default behavior, or the behavior that they remembered. Price has little correlation with functionality, since functionality is so subjective between people.

katanas, on the other hand, were thought to be the fastest weapons in the game until new evidence suggested otherwise. you cant compare the two.

It is, in fact, the exact same situation. Heck, we have a few people here who have already chimed in with their recollection, saying they remembered these items being unbreakable back in the day (while Derrick, on the previous post about this, actually provided a very interesting way in which some items like sandals could be basically unbreakable, with the right clothing/armor setup, but aren't actually imbued with some kind of official unbreakable-ness). So again... to act like this was somehow a conscious decision is ludicrous. There's nothing at all to suggest that. And I'll be incredibly disappointed (and yet, probably laugh) if Kaivan or Derrick does lock this thread and say, "yeah we made 'em unbreakable on purpose. thanks for all the idiotic arguing though, it was fun to read"

[marmalade]

Having discussed this with Derrick last night, this is the reason why blessed clothing has operated in this fashion up until now:

Under the RunUO default system, clothing was not designed to give AR or take damage. As a result, blessed items acquired at that time could not be destroyed. Once clothing AR was introduced into the system, a special provision was allowed for any blessed clothing that would allow it's AR to drop to zero while preventing the item from being destroyed to preserve the items acquired before this change. This was to protect items acquired before the change in the system from being destroyed.

so under the default runuo system, clothing doesnt take damage. clothing damage was added and blessed items were made to not break but to lose durability. even though kaivan says it was to protect items acquired before the change, theres nothing that says new CBDs would behave any differently. many people have been told by staff members since clothing durability was added (myself included) that blessed items will lose durability but will not break.

they could have quite easily not done anything to blessed items after the patch that added clothing durability. they were entirely aware of what was going on and the change was intentional.

kaivan continues:

Essentially, what we have is an inaccurate system compounded on an inaccurate system starting with the default RunUO system. However, despite this, we do need to make a change to the mechanics (and the way that clothing bless deeds operate is very much a mechanic) in order to make blessed items break. Also, we have also been discussing, in house, a reasonable method of compensation for those who have acquired blessed items over the last 2+ years, but we have not made any significant decisions as of yet.

[Fwerp]

This is complete and utter BS. If they were known to be breakable back in the day, the second response on this thread would be Kaivan or Derrick saying "No sh1t sherlock, we did this on purpose obv.

Like I have said, it has been known to be inaccurate for 18+ months, if not from the very, very beginning. The "No crap" reply would never have been Derrick's response to a legitimate question about accuracy, and quite to the contrary, he has made a deliberate choice not to participate in this thread. And, more to your point, if it were the case that Derrick has not known about this for 18+ months, he surely would have corrected the record by now, and it is likely that my posting privileges would have been revoked for propagating false information about staff.

[GuardianKnight]

This whole thread is just mental masturbation for forum fighters. You aren't gaining anything from this but the thrill of doing something people tend to have trouble doing.....pissing blackfoot off.

[Hicha]

How many peopel aquired their custom katana through the custom silver system, then told exactly what they were getting before chosing it?

all of those items have been altered/accurate versions introduced

custom ranger armour through trophys - was not blessed/newbied
era accurate ranger armour through christmas - is blessed/newbied

Custom UOSA black dye tubs through trophys - 1 charge undyeable
era accurate black dye tubs - unlimited charges, dyable

Custom UOSA pheonix armour prize - not blessed/newbied
era accurate CUB pheonix armour - blessed/newbied

Custom UOSA special hair dye prior to 2009 - neon tones available
era accurate hair dye available through CUB - no neon tones available

Custom UOSA furniture dye tubs - Limited charges (charges have been altered)
Era accurate furniture dye tubs - Unlimited charges

The only thing you just proved is that Derrick has implemented inaccurate items in the past and made corrections to each one once accuracy evidence had been provided (which has been provided for the current topic.) Any further discussion about accuracy, compensation, or grandfathering items is completely futile on the topic.

I look forward to Derrick allowing blessed items to receive damage as era accuracy is his goal, not catering to players who disagree.

[monaxe]

i look forward to u stabbing urself in the eye.
aint gonna happen so dont get ur hopes up.
if anything all the original players would get their blessed deeds grandfathered so they became even more rare as the shard became older.
the rare items that some of the players have are part are now part of uosa history which is unique to this shard, it dosnt effect the gameplay like the other changes which are made.

[Mikel123]

Woops, sorry I missed that post marmalade. When was clothing AR implemented, a few months ago?

I'll back of my criticism for anyone who got a CBD after that was implemented. Those that got one before, though, were simply the lucky beneficiaries of a RunUO default that no one caught. I just don't believe Derrick & co. knew that clothing was bugged 18 months ago and chose to do nothing about it until recently. In fact, I remember bringing it up in a post about 6 months ago, that jester's suits for example were not actually providing AR, but should have been, and Derrick seemed surprised.

Anyways thanks for requoting Kaivan there. This thread should have probably ended there, when it sounds like they made their decision. We can all go back to whining about combat swing timer changes and the economy now.

[Fwerp]

No hicha, what he has proved is that there is a standing policy of not altering the reward items that are found to be inaccurate, but instead introducing era accurate versions of those items. This is in essence how I expect this issue to ultimately he addressed.

Those still maintaining that the staff was not aware of this inaccuracy as far back as 18 months ago are simply mistaken. Through act or omission, they chose to proceed with the status quo of having blessed items remain unbreakable, and I will be legitimately surprised if the staff pAsses the onus for this policy choice on to players who have sunk inordinate amounts of time into obtaining these items.

I will also add that there are a lot more than 5 or 6 players (as has been contended in this thread), who would be directly effected by this change.

[BlackFoot]

The only thing you just proved is that Derrick has implemented inaccurate items in the past and made corrections to each one once accuracy evidence had been provided (which has been provided for the current topic.) Any further discussion about accuracy, compensation, or grandfathering items is completely futile on the topic.

I look forward to Derrick allowing blessed items to receive damage as era accuracy is his goal, not catering to players who disagree.

re read my post, you seem to have missed all the important parts.
Its like you read it, then said the post argued the exact opposite of what it actually said... very strange. Yet impressive.

[marmalade]

clothing AR was added in august 2008 (http://forum.uosecondage.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1430) so they've known about this issue for nearly 2 years.

note the line:

Blessed/Newbied clothing will not be destroyed by damage, but once it's hit points reaches zero it will no longer provide and Armor Rating.