Play style vs gaining new players

[Pro]

rofl you actually think people were jealous of others pvm skills?

You are the only person to mention jealousy; is that the best justification you can offer to explain why cheap douchebag lamers act like cheap douchebag lamers?

Otherwise, this remark says absolutely nothing.

people grief because they think it's funny and it makes them happy.

[nightshark]

i dont think pking / pvp/ noto pking decreases population.

i think it affects the population when there is pretty much no other community outside of that.

i started here as a dexer and i would just get completely rolled by people ghosting spawns. there were times where i was getting pked so often at those spawns that i was not even making a gain in gold, and that's coming from a long time vet of UO. imagine if you were new to UO - you would be making a loss on everything unless you wanted to sell fancy shirts. people don't want to play this game to take on the role of "stupid noob", or targets for those who are established. there are many choices for an MMO to play that would cause less frustration, and more fun than that.

[Mikel123]

coming from a long time vet of UO

people don't want to play this game to take on the role of "stupid noob"

So when you started this game, a long time ago, you just hit the ground running and were immediately a vet?

Or did you, too, play the role of "stupid noob", work your way up, and enjoy and play the game so much you became a "long time vet"? And on top of that, 10 years later, you searched for and joined a custom shard to recreate your experience in the past?

[malice-tg]

i dont think pking / pvp/ noto pking decreases population.

Where is the challenge in PK'ing on this shard? Fast skill gains and multiple clients remove the primary challenge to PK's during this era. Mechanically accurate statloss is ineffectual with inaccurate skill gains and inaccurate playstyles (multiclient ghosting).

i was referring to the farmers being challenged by pks. pking is a challenge not in the single kill but the streak without dying, the anti-pk hunt that starts when word begins to travel.

pvp o/c requires both parties to consent. I will pk if nobody wants to o/c fight. thats the beauty of uo, non-consentual player vrs player.

if you really want to curb pking. log off your bard. login a character built to fight players and hunt some pks or farm with a friend and defend yourself when attacked. you can die, they can not die.

[malice-tg]

i dont think pking / pvp/ noto pking decreases population.

Agreed, it's being a prick about it that turns new players off.

I endorse this clarification: if some of those "PvP"ers have left UOSA because they weren't deriving enough satisfaction here from being cheap, lame, chihuahuas (oh noes! QQs!), then there must be a few things that the design team, and the player community, are doing right.

malice-tg, your remark regarding bards makes me chuckle, as its not dissimilar from the mentality I've just described.

Who cares if you got killed by a "prick" or an honorable pk? the end result is the same you are dead.

in t2a when i farmed good spawns the catskills etiquette was people waiting for turns at white wyrms and balrons etc. when a red rolled in everyone just started shooting the red. pks wouldnt even go to spawns known to have people who stood up for themselves because of the risk of death.

the last real pk i saw on catskills was "dead man walking" and sony corleon ( i think were the names )who rolled in one titan valley when me and my brother and a few other tank mages were blade spiriting stuff lol one of them died to a bunch of exp ebolt hallys and the res ran away.

if you want to go farm the best spawns in the game alone. you take the risk of being easy prey for the smallest pk force possible.

if you want to help new players take them under your wing and bring them with you farming.

[malice-tg]

i dont think pking / pvp/ noto pking decreases population.

i think it affects the population when there is pretty much no other community outside of that.

i started here as a dexer and i would just get completely rolled by people ghosting spawns. there were times where i was getting pked so often at those spawns that i was not even making a gain in gold, and that's coming from a long time vet of UO. imagine if you were new to UO - you would be making a loss on everything unless you wanted to sell fancy shirts. people don't want to play this game to take on the role of "stupid noob", or targets for those who are established. there are many choices for an MMO to play that would cause less frustration, and more fun than that.

no offense but you dont need a ghost to find people barding in the top 5 spawns of the world or meleeing liches. if you want to die less dont go alone and if alone is a must dont go to the top 5 spawns in the game.
if you do either then you should learn pretty fast its not a good idea by repeatedly dying.

its not really a valid excuse to quit because you feel entitled to solo the best spawn in the game uninterrupted.

[Myg]

This thread has nothing to do with the topic, its simply about someone wanting to exert their own control and order on the shard: Nothing more.

The shard is as it says on the tin, it shouldnt be anything more or less. We should all come to expect that UO provides a level of emtional response that is much more then any other game out there and as such; will have its relative highs and lows: See it as an opportunity to cultivate self-control if anything else.

[TheEttinKing]

This thread has nothing to do with the topic, its simply about someone wanting to exert their own control and order on the shard: Nothing more.

The shard is as it says on the tin, it shouldnt be anything more or less. We should all come to expect that UO provides a level of emtional response that is much more then any other game out there and as such; will have its relative highs and lows: See it as an opportunity to cultivate self-control if anything else.

The emotional response i got when i played here was anger/rage
i dont think i have even been pissed off since i stopped playing.

All that hate i had in me was cause of other players.
You see that guy malice tg posting right above you i cant tell you how many times Ive been battling a balron that kills in 2 hits and dodging terethians that run at mach 9 and deadly poision then had 2 or 3 of his goons run in on me and lay waste to my ass.
Then all the fun i was having before they showed up went out the window and i felt so gd pissed off that they ruined my fun.

[Foopy]

i dont think pking / pvp/ noto pking decreases population.

Where is the challenge in PK'ing on this shard? Fast skill gains and multiple clients remove the primary challenge to PK's during this era. Mechanically accurate statloss is ineffectual with inaccurate skill gains and inaccurate playstyles (multiclient ghosting).

i was referring to the farmers being challenged by pks. pking is a challenge not in the single kill but the streak without dying, the anti-pk hunt that starts when word begins to travel.

pvp o/c requires both parties to consent. I will pk if nobody wants to o/c fight. thats the beauty of uo, non-consentual player vrs player.

if you really want to curb pking. log off your bard. login a character built to fight players and hunt some pks or farm with a friend and defend yourself when attacked. you can die, they can not die.

I am playing a bit of Devil's advocate here. I've PvP'ed forever and have PK'ed plenty. Saying that newbish farmers need a challenge from PK's is a given. I don't advocate giving them carte blanche to farm uninterrupted all day. What I'm saying is that people using ghosting to scout/avoid areas with their PK's is the newbish sht ever and eliminates any challenge to the PK especially when you combine the fact that said PK can auto rez and have his toon 7x before server down. The challenge isnt for a streak; at least it wasnt for the streak on OSI. It was about not losing a character to statloss that would be an epic pain in the azz to replace.

When I get my guildies set up they will have PKs of their own I'm sure, because the fact is it seems theres nobody to kill but blues for the most part.

Now perhaps I have forgotten everything about UO but individuals involved in O/C and guldwars flag orange and are attackable anywhere, no consent required. If nobody''s playing O/C or guild warring and everyone is out pking and griefing then that really speaks to the PVP population of this server and does so in a really unflattering way.

If individuals continue to log off their guild wars/ O/C character because there's nobody to fight, the problem is compounded and that aspect of this server becomes stunted and becomes nearly impossible to recover.

I'm not advocating anyone stop pk'ing or to do anything they don't want to. I'm advocating having some self respect and not using a multicliented ghost to cover your ass. It's pathetic.

And just to be clear I'm speaking generally and not accusing you of ghosting, pk'ing or anything else for that matter and I'm certainly not whining as I've played long enough to cease caring about losing some regs on my bard. I'm just saying that some of the crap that goes on here that actually isnt era accurate at all will cost the shard new players and while I've seen several people try to deny it, the fact is if/when IPY and/or Divinity come back new players will stagnate regardless. Not only will the newb farmers not come but the better part of the UO PVP community will consider this place an absolute joke and avoid it like the plague. It's a double whammy. Shards need fresh blood to survive. Its just a fact.

PK'ing is lazy PVP as are tourneys and it's really not a problem confined to this shard. I'm not sure when it happened but there was a shift sometime after UOGamers went up in the PVP community that anything goes is not only smart but also the only way to PVP. On Chesapeake, if you chugged a pot in a duel, even a 1v1 on the field, rest assured you'd have a screen of you posted and 90% of the PVP community flaming you relentlessly. Ditto for offscreening and all sorts of other things.

Perhaps those rules were artificial but they were created BY the community out of necessity. There's no killing an experienced 7x pvp build who is chugging pots 1v1.

UO should be challenging to everyone, not just the trammy, day-glo nijutsu rare hunting bard horde. In fact it ought to be more of a challenge to you and I as seasoned PVP'ers. That's why we stayed in Felucca, that's why we hated Trammies and that's why we play this game.

Keep in mind that there are no Trammies here as there is no Trammel here. Treat your fellow players with a modicum of respect. You don't have to gate them out after you pwn that ass, you don't even if have to withhold flames and calling that nub all sorts of nasty crap. Just don't ghost FFS.

[nightshark]

no offense but you dont need a ghost to find people barding in the top 5 spawns of the world or meleeing liches. if you want to die less dont go alone and if alone is a must dont go to the top 5 spawns in the game.
if you do either then you should learn pretty fast its not a good idea by repeatedly dying.

its not really a valid excuse to quit because you feel entitled to solo the best spawn in the game uninterrupted.

yea well "no offense", this is coming from a guy in the guild that has an automated tracker in tera keep 24/7, i'd kind've expect you to defend it. if you don't need a ghost/tracker to find people in these locations, then why don't you stop using those methods? eg; if you play the role of PvMer, rock up at tera keep. within 2 minutes your guild will be there, and they already know exactly where you are. escaping is not the issue - the issue is that you're just simply "not allowed to play there". all well and good, i'll go hunt somewhere else. it's just so ridiculously NEA and brutal in the first place.

my personal experience hasn't been too bad, cause i roll a bard who comes fully prepared. it's the real "noobs" who feel the major brunt of these methods. noone needs a "valid excuse" to quit, if they're not having fun, they'll leave.

So when you started this game, a long time ago, you just hit the ground running and were immediately a vet?

Or did you, too, play the role of "stupid noob", work your way up, and enjoy and play the game so much you became a "long time vet"? And on top of that, 10 years later, you searched for and joined a custom shard to recreate your experience in the past?

UOSA lacks player diversity - yes, there is more than your average RunUO shard (UOSA probably has more player diversity than any other shard available), but it's such a drop in the bucket compared to '99 where everyone was forced into the same game. I just don't think you can compare the experience of '99 to here, and claim people are going to stick around for the same reasons people did in '99.

[malice-tg]

i dont think pking / pvp/ noto pking decreases population.

Where is the challenge in PK'ing on this shard? Fast skill gains and multiple clients remove the primary challenge to PK's during this era. Mechanically accurate statloss is ineffectual with inaccurate skill gains and inaccurate playstyles (multiclient ghosting).

i was referring to the farmers being challenged by pks. pking is a challenge not in the single kill but the streak without dying, the anti-pk hunt that starts when word begins to travel.

pvp o/c requires both parties to consent. I will pk if nobody wants to o/c fight. thats the beauty of uo, non-consentual player vrs player.

if you really want to curb pking. log off your bard. login a character built to fight players and hunt some pks or farm with a friend and defend yourself when attacked. you can die, they can not die.

I am playing a bit of Devil's advocate here.

If individuals continue to log off their guild wars/ O/C character because there's nobody to fight, the problem is compounded.....

This is correct in that logging off o/c when u dont see any doesnt help. I agree 100% i usually keep my guy logged in and if our pks see any o/c we can switch over. generally though if i don't have the day off my time is limited and id prefer some action.

I'm not advocating anyone stop pk'ing or to do anything they don't want to. I'm advocating having some self respect and not using a multicliented ghost to cover your ass. It's pathetic.



PK'ing is lazy PVP as are tourneys and it's really not a problem confined to this shard. I'm not sure when it happened but there was a shift sometime after UOGamers went up in the PVP community that anything goes is not only smart but also the only way to PVP. On Chesapeake, if you chugged a pot in a duel, even a 1v1 on the field, rest assured you'd have a screen of you posted and 90% of the PVP community flaming you relentlessly. Ditto for offscreening and all sorts of other things.


Perhaps those rules were artificial but they were created BY the community out of necessity. There's no killing an experienced 7x pvp build who is chugging pots 1v1.

This I disagree with this part 100%.

Pking isnt lazy, comparing it to tourny is absurd. in a tourney you can grab gm weapon and regs and be completely drunk irl and go without any risk and compete, lose ,win, pass out in the arena it doesn't matter what you do you have no risk.

Pking is a rush because if you die you are out until you retrain your skills. you need to be alert and work together with your team in case of client crash / con loss / ambushes etc. you have to pay more attention pking than anything else in uo. If you don't believe me try to get above 50 counts and see how relaxed you are.

Second ghosting is not a necessity to find people at the limited spawns of the map which are self selected by their gold output. You can find people without a ghost scout to kill by just checking spawns. people are very bent out of shape about ghosting which usually isn't the reason for death or used in the majority of spawns.

lastly those "no chug" rules were invented because in uor it was hard to kill people 1v1 using pots and most people wanted to "shame" someone into being easier to kill in the field. in duels it was consensual rules so you could do no pots. in era the no pot thing was probably a result of UOA not being used by everyone so pots in duels made no sense. plus a no loot duel is for fun essentially so why waste pots?

I can tell you in every era i chugged / ran off screen/ trapped people with mobs/ ambushed people/ and anything else i could to kill people. thats uo.. you can play it however you want.


in case you are wondering why Im replying so much I dislike when people accuse pvp / pking for decreasing population, i think that is a fundamental misconception.

[Foopy]

This I disagree with this part 100%.

Pking isnt lazy, comparing it to tourny is absurd. in a tourney you can grab gm weapon and regs and be completely drunk irl and go without any risk and compete, lose ,win, pass out in the arena it doesn't matter what you do you have no risk.

Pking is a rush because if you die you are out until you retrain your skills. you need to be alert and work together with your team in case of client crash / con loss / ambushes etc. you have to pay more attention pking than anything else in uo. If you don't believe me try to get above 50 counts and see how relaxed you are.

Second ghosting is not a necessity to find people at the limited spawns of the map which are self selected by their gold output. You can find people without a ghost scout to kill by just checking spawns. people are very bent out of shape about ghosting which usually isn't the reason for death or used in the majority of spawns.

lastly those "no chug" rules were invented because in uor it was hard to kill people 1v1 using pots and most people wanted to "shame" someone into being easier to kill in the field. in duels it was consensual rules so you could do no pots. in era the no pot thing was probably a result of UOA not being used by everyone so pots in duels made no sense. plus a no loot duel is for fun essentially so why waste pots?

I can tell you in every era i chugged / ran off screen/ trapped people with mobs/ ambushed people/ and anything else i could to kill people. thats uo.. you can play it however you want.


in case you are wondering why Im replying so much I dislike when people accuse pvp / pking for decreasing population, i think that is a fundamental misconception.

There's no debating that you can play this game how you want, but you have to ask what you want. There were players on Chesapeake who were respected and would chug during a field 1v1 but they were very few and did it very rarely, Now you can say you don't give a damn about respect from your competition but that's precisely whats been missing from pvp since UOGamers.

As for PvP/ PK decreasing the population of farmers and newbs; I can't really speak to that as I don't know any. What I can tell you is bad PVP, (offscreening, blue healers and to a lesser degree chugging 1v1) will decrease the population of PVP'ers. There is a reason people flocked to Chesapeake in UO:R- it was by far the most active PVP shard. A HUGE reason why it was so active is because these rules made fights more enjoyable. They weren't marathons from Yew to Vesper. If you engaged your enemy even numbers you were expected to hold your ground. If you didn't you wouldn't find fights, guilds would basically ignore you and gate out.

People must have liked it because Chesapeake's Felucca population increased as every other American shard other than SP withered. If numbers were lopsided, even slightly, then yeah by all means do whatever it takes. It's just how it worked. There was something to be said for healing a mate who was getting synced by 6 guys without offscreening. It was more a measure of skill than who has treehack enabled and who can run the furthest before wanting to put a bullet in their head.

No chug wasn't generally accepted because it made people easier to kill; it was accepted because it made people possible to kill.

I wasn't wondering why you were replying, it's a worthwhile debate IMO.

I certainly don't advocate mechanical changes to the game to enforce these rules. Some of the responsibility for era accuracy has to fall to us. Nobody used explode pots in era except for griefing, people didn't use scripted combos. Maybe I'm an idealist when it comes to this but my experience on Chesapeake leads me to believe it was the ideal for the lion's share of PVP'ers

[HI IM MIKE]

100% agree with malice on this. Also, you can't retrain a stat loss pk in just a few hours. Death on a tank PK is a 3 day minimum to retrain.

[Foopy]

100% agree with malice on this. Also, you can't retrain a stat loss pk in just a few hours. Death on a tank PK is a 3 day minimum to retrain.

Oh gawd, not 3 days on a shard that allows you 14 easily trained alts... PK'ing here is hardly a fraction as risky or difficult as it was on OSI.

[Pro]

3 days and about 300k everytiem you die on a pk with over 20 counts ;/ (assuming youve got average pk stock)